Couple of issues - help needed! | FerrariChat

Couple of issues - help needed!

Discussion in 'California/Portofino/Roma' started by mrbon007, Sep 15, 2017.

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  1. mrbon007

    mrbon007 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2017
    44
    London
    Just got a couple of issues I would like help with before I waste money at the Ferrari!

    1) My front brakes squeal like hell. I know this is common knowledge and that theres a bedding procedure etc (which doesn't seem to work for me) - dealer says front discs are "perforated" but do not need replacing however replacing them will stop the noise. I have attached some pictures, yes they aren't as smooth as new but they certainly stop hard & fast.

    Are the discs really finished or is this just the dealer wanting to make me spend money?! And more importantly will replacement stop the noise?

    2) Apparently the rear brake pads are "low" although no warning lights have come on yet. Are there any pad alternatives or do we literally only have the option to buy Ferrari brand pads? I have seen some other pads quoted as fitting the Cali but given the massive price difference (sub £100 a set vs £850 for the Ferrari ones) I suspect that although these are the correct shape and will physically fit, they may not be suitable for use with ceramic discs?

    3) The car has randomly shut down and stalled, switched into neutral and put up an alternator failure warning. Dealer says I need a new battery (original one is still in car since 2011). Would a battery really solve this? The car starts perfectly every time, no sign of battery issues except the random stalls?!

    Any help will be much appreciated!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    25,895
    DFW, Texas
    Full Name:
    Tom C
    Not sure about first two, but the OEM batteries are a well-known source of grief. For a battery that old, I'd get a new one, and then use the tender religiously. Do you have HELE? If so, that places additional demands on the battery.

    If possible, can you make a recording of the brake squeal ? This issue pops up a lot, and it would be useful to get an idea of how loud this is. My brakes squeal, but I find it goes away the more I drive the Cali. I also wouldn't characterize it as loud, but then I am a bit hard of hearing!
    T
     
  3. jcavalie

    jcavalie Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 4, 2005
    659
    Oakland, CA
    Full Name:
    Jim
    I don't know about the first two either, but my 2010 on original battery (ands always kept on tender) was throwing all sorts of errors, bizarre warning lights lighting up like Christmas on dash, running roughly, etc. I took it in and dealer was amazed it even ran the battery was so shot. They replaced it and car has been fine since. That was about a year ago and I took delivery in Sept 2009 - so battery was 7 years old. Probably 2x as old as we should let them get!
     
  4. mrbon007

    mrbon007 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2017
    44
    London
    Thanks guys, I will get the battery changed asap.

    With regard to the recording of the squeal its not that loud but it is there all the time, and gets worse the more the car is driven (e.g. they are silent until warmed up then are noisy with even the slightest dab of the brake).

    I can stop silently if if roll to a stop and brake softly and slowly but thats not normal driving!
     
  5. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,601
    Southern Europe
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    Mario
    Looking at the pictures of your front brakes rotors and comparing them with the picture attached of my ex-Cali rear rotors with 20.000 Km they seem very different. The ones of my Cali always squealed a bit when they were cold but not much so I suspect that the very uneven surface finish visible on your rotors should be the cause for that like hell squealing.

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  6. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    25,895
    DFW, Texas
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    Tom C
    I looked at my brake rotors and they have a similar surface "crazing". Likewise, a Google image search showed similar surface features. Wonder if that's a consequence of the carbon ceramic brakes?!?

    mrbon007... Is it louder than in this video?

    T
     
  7. MDEL

    MDEL F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2016
    3,601
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    Mario

    Following my last post below on the left side there is another picture of my ex-Cali rear brakes rotor when the car was 20.000 Km. The picture on the right side is the one you posted of your Cali's front brakes rotor so you can compare and take your conclusions.


    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  8. mrbon007

    mrbon007 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2017
    44
    London
    Definitely not that loud or deep, its very high pitched - literally a squeak.
     
  9. OwenC

    OwenC Karting

    Aug 12, 2017
    62
    About #3, my Cali30 is a 2013 model and was ran for only 500km by the previous owner.

    After a month of ownership, I was getting all sorts of strange errors (drive failure warning, airbag sensor failure, catalytic sensor failure) even if the car was running fine. Brought it to the dealer recently and they think that battery needs replacement since it was still the original one from the factory. Hopefully issues will be solved soon when I get news next week...
     
  10. Brian L

    Brian L Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2015
    1,943
    Los Angeles
    Full Name:
    Brian
    New Battery and then drive the car 90+ mph and FULLY BRAKE, putting the car into anti lock

    3 times.

    Dealer recommended.
     
  11. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    25,895
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    Tom C
    Make sure to get a note from dealer to show to police when they pull you over. ;) Seriously though, what Brian says seems to be the prevailing F-chat wisdom for dealing with squeaky brakes...T
     
  12. tomc

    tomc Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 13, 2014
    25,895
    DFW, Texas
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    Tom C
    If at all possible, try to keep it on tender, unless it's your daily driver...T
     
  13. phanliu

    phanliu Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 21, 2015
    622
    Illinois
    Full Name:
    Noel
    Brian is correct - try that as my 458 used to squeal too and the dealer advised me to do just this after several runs of high speed and brake it went away.

    Just make sure you're the only one of the road :)
     
  14. mrbon007

    mrbon007 Rookie

    Apr 17, 2017
    44
    London
    Ok I'm gonna try this again. I did try before from around 60mph down to about 20 but it didn't work.

    I live in London so the average speed you can hit is around 15mph so finding an empty road and doing 90 is gonna take some work!

    I guess the perforations on the discs are inconsequential then with regard to the noise?!
     
  15. phanliu

    phanliu Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 21, 2015
    622
    Illinois
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    Noel
    Your particular case may very well even be the perforations on the discs so now looking at your pics again the above suggestion may help or may not. Not sure what others think about brake cleaner on carbon ceramics - just a thought that popped up. I maybe wrong!
     
    Nel1 likes this.
  16. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
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    Michael
    Here's a photo of one of the front rotors on my 2013 Cali30 - they always look crazed like that, even when new. My brakes generally don't squeal at all. The most they ever do was make a small bit of noise on rare occasions if the car had been stored but they go away once I start using the car.

    You should not try any cleaners on the CCM rotors. Once the rotors are cooled you can wash or spray with clean water but if you think you need more aggressive cleaning I would leave that to the dealer or qualified experts because CCM rotors can be easily ruined by chemicals and I believe a set of 4 new rotors will run you around $25-30k + labour.

    You should search the forum for CCM brake pad bedding procedures but I believe you need to do a few 85 mph runs, braking to around 25 mph in between and make sure you do not actually stop the car between runs, holding the brake pedal down. At any rate, look on the forum for details from people who have done it successfully.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
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    Brian Brown
    You need new front brake rotors. When the surface of the rotors is not smooth and has many voids as the photos of your rotors do, it is time for new rotors.
    What is the front rotor wear reading stored in the instrument cluster?
     
  18. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
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    Michael
    I'm puzzled.

    mrbon007's brake rotors look just like mine when my car was new - and my rotors still look like new (photo attached above). The crazed pattern (of fibrous filaments) on my rotors are not voids. The patterns are smooth as glass and flush with the surface of the rotors. The crazed pattern is like the appearance of mineral patterns in granite or the quartz composite (SILESTONE) countertops.

    Here is a side-by-side comparison of the photo of my car's rotor (left) with the OP's (right). Unless he says otherwise, I think the OP's rotors are smooth and without voids just like mine. That's just the way they look. I believe they are 2nd generation CCM rotors, probably Brembo.

    My brakes work fine. I was just tearing down country roads on them last weekend with a bunch of other Fcars.

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  19. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,239
    Frederick, Maryland
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    Brian Brown
    I was referring to the brake rotors on mrbon007's car. If you look at the IMG_6528.JPG in his first post, you can see the voids in the surface of the rotors. If you were to run your fingers over the surface, it would feel rough, not smooth like your rotors. These would just eat up a set of new pads, and should be replaced.
     
  20. dreichman

    dreichman Formula Junior

    Sep 9, 2011
    425
    Denver, CO
    What about steel rotors? Is there a replacement for the CCM’s?
     
  21. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
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    Michael
    I appreciate your comments and explanations. You are probably right and I stand corrected.

    The structural nature of CCM brake rotors really make it difficult to see surface imperfections from photos. Here's a side-by-side comparison between the OP's rotor from IMG_6528.JPG and my rotor. They both look pitted, but my rotor is glass smooth.

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    Here's another view of my front rotor using light from another angle which illustrates how the embedded carbon fibres can appear depending on the lighting angle.

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    However, if the OP says "...dealer says front discs are "perforated"..." and mentions "...they aren't as smooth as new..." then you are most probably right and here is an enlarged portion I made from the OP's IMG_6526.JPG photo. There definitely seems to be some shadows in some of the embedded carbon fibre bundles in that photo.

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  22. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie

    Jan 18, 2013
    4,425
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    Michael
    Most regular rotors are actually made of cast iron although some are stainless steel. Using these to replace the CCM rotors would likely result in noticeable losses in performance due to the huge weight penalties. You will also get lots of brake dust!

    Heavier front rotors would result in poorer handling, more sluggish turn in, less efficient braking. If the OP also replaces the rears with heavier metal rotors, acceleration would be dulled along with poorer braking performance.

    You really have to be ready for the costs of maintenance when you buy one of these cars, new or used. There are aftermarket CCM brakes, some of which may fit but you'll have to look from a reliable local rep as the dealer would likely not want to get involved.
     

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