"Court to rule on mystery of 'cloned' Ferrari"

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by QWKDTSN, Nov 24, 2006.

  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    Steven Robertson
    #51 miurasv, May 9, 2018
    Last edited: May 9, 2018
    0818.

    What do the pages of the Classiche Book say regarding the chassis, engine and gearbox? Do they state whether they are the original items or whether they have been repaired/replaced?


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  2. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    Excuse the extra questions rather than answers but the FIA changed their test from the original "checks" on originality to the current HTPs test for "to original specification". While its uncertain what, if anything, Ferrari Classiche actually tests for we do know they also obsess over the car being certified to being "to original specification as it left the factory". At least one 250GT SWB was classiched early on and needed a brand new renumbered new engine because it was fitted with a contemporary engine, from a different 250GT. With #0818, it was likely built in the UK during the 1970s to the original spec. (likely with Pipers assistance) so if Classiche is simply checking for accuracy of presentation vs their original records, that would be a tick. Another step would have involved having one of their experts/ consultants check the documentation of the car presented and any other claimants and depending on how legit the expert is, that will be two ticks..... Hey presto two #0818s.

    Like any system, its only as good as the weakest link and should anyone with any questionable Ferrari decide to utilise political connections and enough cash, I do get the feeling just about anything can be manufactured. Jim could likely have a #0846 classiched, #0384AM ditto, #6045 (actually that has already happened). Lets not forget that Classiche is a business subsidiary of Ferrari and as such its sole imperative is to make money......

    Just my 2 cents.
     
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  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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    #53 miurasv, May 10, 2018
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
    Thanks for your reply, Timothy. Please excuse me for being thick but I can't see the FIA relevance. Ferrari Classiche AFAIK haven't changed their checking procedure at all. The Certificate of Authenticity layout is exactly the same now as it was in 2005 as shown in the picture that Boudewijn posted of the 0818 COA earlier in this thread. What hasn't been mentioned before is that Ferrari Classiche authentications are qualified authentications and always have been, meaning that they are subject to the limitations as set out in the technical file. Does anyone have copies of the 0818 Classiche technical file pages that refer to the chassis, engine, gearbox and body so we can see what those qualifications regarding the authentication are?

    Snip below from 0818 Classiche Certificate of Authenticity.


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  4. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    Steve,

    My point was simple, like the FIA would ask, checking against original spec. can be done with what they would like have, what other sort of forensic testing could they do?. I guess they could do metallurgical testing but even if they did, what would they be comparing it against because I am certain Ferrari wouldn't have kept spare tubing from an outdated 1960s racing car so they could only check against 1960s Italian steel (which wouldn't be that hard to replicate). Any other suggestions of exactly how they could assess anything on a forensic level? Stamping could be another forensic clue, but are we certain that Ferrari used a specific format, kept accurate records and would know. Considering their stock in trade are road cars, most of which require nothing more than a brief check before they are certified (and restored at huge cost) I am not sure that there is much further needed as a general rule and exactly what level they are geared to when it comes to outliers. Perhaps I am wrong but I doubt Classiche do much more than get their consultants to check the car out, assess it against whatever documents on file (to ensure that it is to original spec), work with the owner when there are issues/ inconsistencies or to sort colour's etc. and that's about it.

    But if you are aware of any actual forensic testing going on, I would genuinely be interested to know.

    Cheers
    Timothy
     
  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran
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  6. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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  8. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    Hi Steve,

    Maybe you know, so this can be an FYI for other Fchatters-
    If you want to link a specific post in a thread (in this case #41), you can go to the thread and then click on the post number you like which appears in the top right corner of the post.
    This will bring up a link that takes you directly to that post. It can be copied and pasted in a reply to share the specific post if so desired.

    Dave
     
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