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Cracked 355 Headers

Discussion in '348/355' started by carlissimo, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. carlissimo

    carlissimo Karting

    Aug 26, 2007
    110
    Phoenix, Arizona
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    Carlo
    Anybody have a good used left hand side original equipment header for a 355 they want to get rid of? I think mine is starting to crack. Prefer the later version. Send me a PM.
     
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  3. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I saw a set on Ebay the other day--maybe check there...
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Well, at least one seminal poster here will come along to disagree with me, but you can have most exhaust headers repaired at any competent muffler shop (often for as little as a few hundred bucks).
     
  5. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
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    PM sent, I doubt I'll be keeping mine and the driver side looks good.

    Agree with ND, repair is an option too.
     
  6. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Probably cheaper than that to just weld them up nicely...Just don't tell them it's for a Ferrari!!!
     
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  8. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks, Jay.

    I believe that you 355 guys have been getting bad advice from the same few voices for years, if not an entire decade...especially on being able to repair your exhaust headers (as well as on "valve guides" that are claimed to be bad when the 355 isn't even smoking out the exhaust).

    Heck, I've seen more than one voice recommend GL4 tranny fluid when our Ferraris need GL5.

    It's a pattern. Y'all deserve better.
     
  9. 285ferrari

    285ferrari Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Hell yes---Long live the Fratelli!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2005
    86,843
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Repairing them is an option. I wouldnt think of it as a long term fix though, as it may crack again in that area, or close to it. :):)

    But it IS the cheapest way to go about it, so give it a go. Or, bolt on another good used one, only to have it crack in 6 months time in the same area. :p:p
     
  11. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    You know, you might be on to something here.

    Just to get the facts straight, how many 355's have you personally had the heads off of and inspected the guides? How about headers? Just round numbers will do so we can establish a baseline for the above statements.

    Lay out your theories on the 355 guide and header issues so we can look at this with open eyes.

    Dave
     
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  13. mikeBLACK355

    mikeBLACK355 Rookie

    Feb 12, 2008
    16
    West Palm Beach, Fl
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    mike g
    Although I posted this plea on another thread, I figured I would make my plea here too!
    My 95 F355 just popped another manifold on the left side, #6 port...sounds like a VW bug...
    Two years ago the right side exploded with a 2 to 3 shift that was not that memorable..however I purchased a repaired manifold from a guy in Atlanta, just cannot remember his name...is this still possible to have the manifold repaired ..the right side , fingers crossed, is still ok..
    Naturally every repair shop says "no repair" is possible.
    New from Ferrari is just south of $3000.00
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks
    Mike
     
  14. ferraridriver

    ferraridriver F1 Rookie
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    Aug 8, 2002
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    Dave
    Come on guys, how many muffler shops are aware of the alloy used by Ferrari in their exhaust system; further how many have the proper filler rod to successfully weld these manifolds?

    I wonder how many here have any experience welding clean stainless, let alone stainless that is coated with baked in carbon on the inside where it is impossible to clean.

    Believe me, it’s not easily done.

    409 Stainless can be successfully welded employing SMA, GMA and GTA processes. When not used in a high temperature environment, filler metal AWS ER309 is acceptable for use. For stronger, more resilient welds at high temperature, use weld filler such as 409 Cb, AWS ER430 or W18 Cr-Cb.

    Can it be done? Sure it can, Quicksilver in England obviously has the experience, but I really doubt Manny’s Muffler Shop does.
     
  15. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3
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    In reality the 409 grade stainless is the same crap used in many standard stainless exhausts systems manufactured by all the majors. Probably welds the same as Ford, GM etc. I personally will probably use Quicksilver when my headers inevitably fail! If I decide to repair.
     
  16. jetfixr

    jetfixr Formula 3

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    #13 jetfixr, Feb 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
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    And Quicksilver uses 304 stainless, one guage thicker in their rebuilding process. If you use more 409, even thicker, it will probably fail again.
     
  18. No Doubt

    No Doubt Six Time F1 World Champ
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    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    I'd be willing to put right-side exhaust headers, welded to my specs at my expense, onto a 355 on which you placed new Ferrari OEM exhaust headers (with no modifications or coatings added) on the left side.

    We then hire a neutral driver to push the car to its limits on the track until one set of headers blew.

    If the left side fails before the right, then you buy the car. If not, then I buy it.

    Deal?
     
  19. jetfixr

    jetfixr Formula 3

    Jun 14, 2007
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    Carlo

    On a serious note I just got your PM. Yes I have a good left one...PM if you want it.

    I also have a *new* right and a *used* right header.... All are 2.7..........


    With Fabspeed producing such a nice product I'd go in with Uconn, 285 and the guys if I were you....

    Get in on the "group buy"......................
     
  20. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Rookie
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    Jun 9, 2004
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    I was going to respond to this last night but got kinda bored and sleepy so I went to bed. Now I don't have to. Oh crap I guess I did.

    Hey Jetfixr where'd you them thar dogies?
     
  21. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

    Aug 20, 2007
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    I have found that a tube of J-B Weld and some header wrap can quiet exhaust leaks on most cracked headers... it also greatly reduces Ferrari ownership costs.
    Nice pics jetfixr... when did you get a dog??? hahaha
     
  22. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

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    #19 enginefxr, Feb 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Shouldn't that picture have looked like this instead?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. jetfixr

    jetfixr Formula 3

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    They are my good friends, the 3 dogs go with me everyday to the hangar, the car to the right was built by a good Ferrari mechanic I know, and the two folks at the bottom are actually people I know...The gentleman holding the beer can owns a muffler shop and is currently getting into welding.....


    :)








    Honestly, I got the photos in an email somewhere.......I thought I'd add some humor to the thread, that's all..........
     
  24. carlissimo

    carlissimo Karting

    Aug 26, 2007
    110
    Phoenix, Arizona
    Full Name:
    Carlo
    The Fabspeed option sure is tempting. Is it too late to get in on the group buy with you guys?
     
  25. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
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    Well then..... The coffee that was inadvertently spit out on the computer screen after reading some replies is now cleaned up and Kris has calmed the dogs down again. I garran-damn-teya I will print out and frame the photo of the dogs and it will be hanging on the office wall with a suitable caption attached. This is one for the record books, headers, valve guides and JB Weld in the same thread... I LOVE IT!

    In honor of Brian, this will be my first attempt at getting banned and I raise my fresh cup of coffee (thanks enginefxr and jetfxr) in a toast to him wishing I could reply as he used to.

    No Doubt, that has to be the single biggest dip shtt statement I have yet to read that you posted to date and I will break my own rules in saying so in a public forum. When asked for your theories and hard facts to back your statements you fold. For all of the good you do in your area of expertise, computers, you still make some of the dumbest statements regarding things mechanical and lead folks that read some of this swill down a path that is sure to cost them money in the long run. Your Motronic 2.7 work that I read on here is absolutely wonderful and you are able to write about the decoding process on a level even and Hillbilly like me can understand, thats no easy task and is quite commendable. When it comes to things mechanical like this you are NO DOUBT out of your area of expertise and should learn to do some new tricks with your fingers rather than type the swill you do. A new owner just might believe some of this crap and I assure you if they follow the "if it doesnt smoke, keep driving it" statement, it will cost them a great deal more money in the long run.

    The problem here is that some folks dont remember your base theory of "if it blows up because of what I do, I will just rebuild it again" that you posted some time back. They read the genius of the Motronic thread and figure you are on your game with this stuff.

    Go ahead and weld up the headers, do ANYDAMNTHING so they dont leak. Hell, spay metal at them with a MiG welder if you want but make them leak proof. I read on here that there are some super-human folks that can change headers in a 355 in about 2 hrs a side with the engine in the car so these repairs can be done early on a Sat. morning prior to a fun run. That being the case you can fix them every weekend at little to no cost. Hell why even remove them from the car? Weld in place, just turn the spool feed up a bit higher and birds nest the patches in place. For those that care about their cars, REMEMBER, what is in the header pipes doesnt always go out. In the case of the 5 valve engines, what is in one header pipe can end up in the combustion chamber of another cylinder on the same bank. I have hundreds of hours researching the dynamics of this in an attempt to fully understand it but unlike others I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

    Valve guides. If it doesnt smoke with the guides being bad then the stem seals are still holding back the flow. I have changed guides on some heads where when the valve is held open at say .400 lift off the seat the head can be moved back and forth 3/8's of an inch. I have done some where there was so much carbon on the bottom of the valve head that it had perfectly formed to the shape of the port and had smoothed its self out from being compacted on every valve closure. That being stated, Tuesday I delivered a 95 Spider after a major service. Prior to the work I ran a compression and leakdown test and got one bank all in the 155-157 range and one bank all in the 165-168 range with the worst cylinder showing 4% leakage and most showing 2%. There are those on here that say dialing the cam timing in properly isnt needed and a waste of time. Read the above numbers and you decide, line the damn marks up and throw it together if you want. Further inspection showed zero leakage from a pressure test of the headers and a visual inspection of the converters showed they were intact as well. The eye opener is it is all as delivered new, OE original headers, cats, and valve guides and this car is not pampered, it is driven properly.

    I get asked what is included in a major service? This week? It is an evolving thing, this week we know more than last week and damn sure incorporate that knowledge into the next car in. When I get to the shop I am going to post some photo's of some of the rat shtt work we have to deal with daily and folks can decide for themselves how to proceed with their own cars. Careful about what you read on the Net. Make sure it is backed up with statistics and facts, otherwise it is worth what you paid for it.

    One of the voices giving bad advise? In your ear!

    Dave
     
  26. enginefxr

    enginefxr Formula 3

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    +1

    I've seen plenty of engines with carbon so bad under the valves that it had formed to the shape of the valve head and fell out when the valves were removed!
    Also had engines with obvious "hillbilly" seal service- where there were bits and pieces of valve seal material, including the seal spring, in the oil pan during rebuild. It was an obvious attempt to stop bad valve guides from leaking oil by taking the cheap way out and replacing just the seals while the engine was probably in the car, or at least with the heads still on the engine! Why not solve the problems instead of placing a Band-aid on it?

    Sorry about the computer screen Dave, hope the coffee didn't ruin it!
     
  27. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Moderator
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    Dec 10, 2005
    86,843
    Mount Isa, Australia
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    Hahaha!! :p:p


    You didnt try hard enough mate! ;);)
     
  28. jetfixr

    jetfixr Formula 3

    Jun 14, 2007
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    Well said Dave,

    I wasn't going to add any more but I think it's time that someone slice through all of the BS and get the facts straight.....I have been a multiple Ferrari owner for some time and I guess to sum things up I love the history of a Ferrari, I like the fact that it makes you "exclusive" to the rest of the GM/Ford crowd, and most importantly well I just simply enjoy having nice things rather than waste my money on crap.

    I must say that I am overall disappointed in the "take the cheap route" attitude so many slip into on this forum. It makes no sense to me why a person can assume this is possible with a Ferrari. It is the equivalent of being on a Beechcraft Baron budget buying a Learjet and then stumbling through affording it by making silly statements such as "Well, I run the Lear on K-1 because its cheaper" or "my mechanic charges too much so joe blow down the street will pencil whip my inspection".......My friends, in aviation this will get you killed, maybe even innocent people on the ground too.....In Ferrari land, it simply means a poor innocent guy down the road will inherit your mess. It is simple, fix it and fix it right. If you do it yourself fine, but I'd love to know in reality how many mistakes are made behind the scenes, we never hear about that.....It's kind of like some fighter pilots. Ever wander why they are so good? Answer, there isn't a copilot there to see the mistakes :)

    These threads are much like the aviation community forums, I quit reading them long ago because of the same things.

    I enjoy reading the threads by Vern, 285, Goth, 355Spider,Helms and many of the others. But the rest, well lets just say I enjoy posting pictures of my doggies........

    I didn't notice until today the "all talk and no action comment"........I wasn't doing anything other than adding humor but since you asked that well here is the answer, trust me when I say. Only the best goes on my car, actually you'd lose your bet in a
    BIG way...I don't run Ansa's or welded Ansa's I have a set of Tubi headers on one and a set of Fabspeeds on the other.....My vehicles are taking care of like airplanes, they get what they need...Ask Dan and David....As for being a proud DIY guy, well I'm not.....I enjoy doing all I can when I have time. But honestly my occupation is aviation and when I'm too busy with that my car gets shipped to the EXPERTS. I'm not too proud, I just do not trip over quarters to pick up dimes.......The Spider in fact is going to NJB Automotive next week.......Craig and Jack are great and any good mechanic can recognize the talent. As for Helms, I wish he was closer because I'd send a ton his way, especially since I probably owe him a computer or maybe a anti-bark collar for the dogs....

    Guys, keep in mind.....I meant all of the previous posts in fun only......Don't take too serious (No doubt)........

    I try to share all the photos I can of new items released that we buy and how the results turn out, I try to keep things factual so as to maybe help the *Fratelli* not waste money on BS mods.....If I am a nuisance let me know and I'll gladly walk away....


    Just listen when I say this, If your going to post how cheap you can be, the savvy folks either will not respond or will tell you otherwise.....


    If the 348/355 thread keeps on the cheap, I'm going after a 430/F40/ or maybe even a DBS....Been watching those threads and have not seen any welding lately :)
     

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