CraneCams XR-i Installation Notes - '79 308 | FerrariChat
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CraneCams XR-i Installation Notes - '79 308

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 4Webers, Mar 6, 2005.

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  1. 4Webers

    4Webers Formula Junior

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    #1 4Webers, Mar 6, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I finally started the 'Euro-isation' of my US-spec 308, starting with the ignition system. Firstly, I just want to say that I am not 'anti-points' per se, but I am against the two separate distributor advance systems. My ignition modification goals are:
    1. have both cylinder banks controlled by one advance mechanism
    2. do not cut/drill/etc any stock parts so that everything is reversible if necessary
    3. keep the stock look if possible (no external boxes)
    4. improve performance / reduce maintenance wherever possible
    5. not spend a fortune (like just buying a new euro distributor system)

    I read several posts here where people were wondering if the Crane XR-i module would work, but no posts where anyone had actually tried it. After comparing all of the various manufacturer's products (Crane, Mallory, Pertronix, etc.) I decided to try the XR-i. I especially like it's feature of triggering off of the stock cam lobes, and not needing a magnetic or optical collar installed into the distributor.

    To get to the point, the XR-i will NOT work if you want to install two of them in one distributor, simply because the modules are too big for two of them to fit properly. My first blurry picture (sorry no macro feature on my camera) does show them both installed in my distributor, but I had to hack both modules unmercifully to get them to fit, and after all that I couldn't get the trigger windows to be 135 deg. apart - the best that I could do was about 140 deg. apart, and that was after cutting a tab off of each module and even starting to cut into the module itself. At this point the reliability of my franken-system was way worse than the stock points too, since one of the tabs that had to be cut away was the grounding tab for one of the units, neccesitating some soldering and re-grounding. I must say that the modules themselves are very rugged, even after all of my cutting/grinding/soldering they still worked, at least until the remaining grounding metal got pulled loose from one of the modules.

    The XR-i WILL WORK though if you just want to replace the points with one XR-i module in each distributor. After giving up on my dual system, I went ahead and installed one module in the distributor for evaluation (second blurry pic). One warning here: I initially put the XR-i's trigger window at the same location as the points cam follower, but I discovered that the XR-i triggers at approx. the center of the cam lobe, whereas the points trigger at the leading edge of the cam lobe. This delays the trigger event, and while you can adjust for this by re-indexing the rotor shaft in the camshaft, it will move the rotor too far from the distributor contact, causing mis-fires and/or cross-fires when the advance kicks in.

    After fixing this problem and re-installing the distributor, the car seemed to idle better and the throttle response seemed better during my short test drive. Note that I was running only one cylinder bank on the XR-i, while the other was still running on the stock points. I will leave the XR-i in place for a while and see how it performs while I decide what to install next, and report back here anything interesting of course. It looks like I will have to use the Mallory or Pertronix system if I want two modules in one distributor.

    Comments/questions welcome of course...
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  2. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #2 Birdman, Mar 7, 2005
    Thanks for the info, I have been wondering about this. One question...


    How did you fix it?

    Birdman
     
  3. 4Webers

    4Webers Formula Junior

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    #3 4Webers, Mar 7, 2005
    For the installation, I had to drill two holes in the adapter plate that came with the module in order to use the two threaded holes for the stock points, ignoring the original holes that are spaced for the GM installation. I just had to move the adapter plate over some by drilling a new set of mounting holes (in the adapter plate). BTW, I used the GM version of the XR-i module since the GM version is for CW rotation, vs. CCW for the Ford version.
     
  4. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #4 snj5, Mar 7, 2005
    Really interesting thread on a very clever premise having one advance mechanism fire the two coils and keep two distributor bodies. Would a unilite or other trigger work if the sensors were smaller even if a collar were needed?
     
  5. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    #5 Sean F., Mar 7, 2005
    You can fit two of the pertronix ingnitor systems in one dist. I haven't done it but I've seen at least one poster has had it done. Some one in CA did it for him and also checked that the adv. was correct on the dist.

    If you really want to get rid of the mech. adv. the only way to do it is a crank trigger wheel system like the Electromotive product Nick sells.

    Yes it's expensive, but you get good spark ALWAYS w/o having to worry about corroded caps, adv. weights, etc.... To replace all that stuff is going to cost you almost $1200 anyway.

    I know a few who have gone with the Crane system and love it (same principle as the pertronix unit).
     
  6. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

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    #6 Birdman, Mar 8, 2005
    I'm putting in an Electromotive....as soon as the points give me trouble. For now they are fine and I'm not messing with them!
     
  7. 4Webers

    4Webers Formula Junior

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    #7 4Webers, Mar 8, 2005
    The Mallory UniLite modules are definitely too big to fit two of them in one distributor - As Sean said, two Pertronix Ignitors will fit as others have done this already, as would two Crane XR-700 modules. I was just hoping that the two XR-i's would fit, since I liked it's collar-less trigger method better, plus it has the adaptive dwell and rev limiter circuitry without an external box. The XR-i is cheaper than all of the others too.

    I don't really mind having a mech. advance, I just don't want to get and keep two of them perfectly synched!
     
  8. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #8 thecarreaper, Mar 9, 2005
    points suck................

    i hate points...............


    did i mention i hate points?

    :)
     
  9. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    #9 Sean F., Apr 19, 2005
    Any updates on the Crane XR-i system?
     
  10. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #10 thecarreaper, Apr 19, 2005
    i still hate points :) :) :)
     
  11. 4Webers

    4Webers Formula Junior

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    #11 4Webers, Apr 20, 2005
    I've been replacing steering rack bushings and rebuilding my water pump, so I haven't driven the car for a few weeks. I have a pair of Pertronix units on order, and will be installing them into one distributor as soon as they come in. The few times that I have driven the car with the Crane, everything was fine though.
     
  12. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #12 thecarreaper, Apr 21, 2005




    !!!!!! where the heck did you get the Pertronix units!!! i called SUMMIT, ordered 2 units, and waited for 8 weeks. they said they could not get them for Marelli / italian applications. calls to Pertronix went unanswered.

    my GTB runs like a top, so much so , i may just keep her for awhile and do all the mods i want to do ( euro front spoiler, GTO wheels, ignition, exhaust)
     
  13. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #13 snj5, Apr 21, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #14 thecarreaper, Apr 21, 2005

    hey Russ, did you get a good guy discount or something? buy it used? i called them and they wanted $1500 + my dizzys ( both of them) to do the conversion. if i can get it for $500 i will send them the money today.


    any help would be great!!!!
     
  15. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #15 snj5, Apr 21, 2005
    The adapter kit was $500 from Norwood's (www.norwoodperformance.com), but that was the very first one on my concept & design - they've done more now so they are cheaper. There are several threads on this conversion after a previous FChatter's conversion kit I bought went way south for me and others.

    The very short story:
    Custom adapter kit from Norwoods: $500, probably less expensive now
    Mallory Unilite Ford flathead 3 ear distributor: $300 (shop around - MSD now makes one as well)
    Rotation change mod from Mallory: $25

    I added MSD for $160

    I know Kermit (www.durable1.com)has a (cheaper?) kit for this as well he developed after me with a bit more modern distributor.

    For me, the DIY is great - I can custom curve myself, a cap is $30, rotor $5, get parts at the local stores well, you get the picture. Heck, the whole distributor cost less than one OEM cap.

    best
    rt
     
  16. don_xvi

    don_xvi F1 Rookie

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    #16 don_xvi, Apr 21, 2005
    I'm with carreaper on this one... So is this NOT what you have then? I need to call for something else?

     
  17. Doug

    Doug Formula 3

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    #17 Doug, Apr 21, 2005
    The PO of my 308 GT4 did his own single dizzy conversion. He used an original 308 dizzy and then had a case machined that would cover a Unilite ignition and match up a Ford Mallory cap and rotor. The car works like a charm. I had a problem when I first got the car where it would misfire at 4000 rpm and bog down. My mechanic found a loose pick up plate or soomething and I have not had a problem since.
     
  18. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    #18 thecarreaper, Apr 21, 2005


    yea, i have a lot of respect for Russ and all that has added here, but i am now confused. Norwood doesnt show any $500 conversion kit, just the $14xx kit they they have to do to one of your dual dizzys. i still dont know why they wanted both of mine.

    Russ the conversion you are running sounds interesting, i am just unsure if its something they did custom for you, or they actually sell this and its not on the site. please clarify, sorry for the confusion, i know you are trying to help!
     
  19. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    #19 Sean F., Apr 21, 2005
    I'd be interested in hearing about this $500 norwood thing too.

    I talked with Don King yesterday at Elite Auto in CA (310-606-5695). He'll put two Pertonix units in 1-dizzy, rebuild/check the dizzy you send him and adjust the advance as necessary (he said he set's the advance to pick up closer to 3400RPM rather than go full at 4000rpm).

    Total cost was $550 and some mailing back and forth. The reason he sets them in 1-dizzy is b/c he feels it's impossible to set both dizzy's to advance exactly the same so by setting them to run off one advance, all cylinders advance the same. He mails back a 2nd cap with holes to line up the rotor on the front dizzy at #5.

    But if Norwoods has a $500 conversion, I'd like to see it.

    I don't see anything on his web site.
     
  20. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #20 snj5, Apr 21, 2005
    No - I do NOT have the advertised Marelli distributor conversion. That is where they convert the Marelli distributor. Mine is based on a custom engineered adaptor that accepts a new manufactured & commonly available Mallory or MSD V-8 electronic performance distributor for a flathead V-8 Ford. No fuss, no muss. Even has a flat cap like the Italians. Easy to maintain.

    Let me know if you need anything further.
    best
    rt
     
  21. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #21 snj5, Apr 21, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's a picture of his prototype (blue hei cap) Kermit exchanged with me as I shared my lessons learned. I've also attached another photo of the Mallory installation on the 3.2 - kinda messy cuz I hadn't cleaned it up and prettied it yet, but you get the idea.
    MSD now makes a Flat cap as well that would work with the existing Norwood kit. Kermit's is a bit more high tech than mine, but still very simple and reliable. I don't know how many he has done. I know Norwood's has done at least 2 like mine. It's just so dang simple and works.

    While not advertised on their site - ask for Mike Kuhn at Norwoods as he is very familiar with my installation as he made it. You can even use my name as they are getting my car tomorrow to install some hot intake cams (yea!! - finally!!) They'll make one for you, too.

    best
    rt
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  22. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    #22 snj5, Apr 22, 2005
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  23. Doug

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    #23 Doug, Apr 22, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is a pic of my Marelli that was converted to a single dizzy. The Mallory Unilite is attached in the original Marelli housing behind the machined plate. If you can get someone to machine a plate, I guess this conversion is simply the cost of a new coil, Unilite, and the cap/rotor. My guess is about $200 total and it works like a charm. Only problem is that it leaves the tach inop because it reads double the RPM. I can send it to Palo Alto Speedo to convert for @$200. Until then, I just rely on max speed in each gear as the highest allowable shift point.
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  24. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    #24 Sean F., Apr 22, 2005
    So all we need is that and a custom machined adapter plate from Norwoods (and an MSD)??

    Don't take this wrong Russ, but you're being a little criptic here. The 308 distributor has be talked about at length on this site and you're sort of crashing the party here. No one has ever mentioned something as simple as this to fix the 308 dizzy.

    If it was this simple, why hasn't anyone brought this up before.

    What did you get from Norwoods for $500??? Just the adapter plate?

    Details man, we need more details. How does the old drive on the old rotor hook up to the new system? How is that adapter plate attached?
     
  25. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

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    #25 Artvonne, Apr 22, 2005
    Here is were I am on this subject. I grew up with points and dwell meters and feeler guages, so I dont mind that stuff at all. But I dont exactly love the cost of the parts we have to buy much either. I like reliability but even more I like being able to find parts locally as much as possible to keep a machine running, if only for emergencies if nothing else. I probably hate GM more than anyone could ever hate Marreli, and would rather cut off a body part than put a GM part on a Ferrari.

    That all being said, my car came with an old twin Allison electronic ignition, using the light and shutter wheels in both distributors. Apparently Crane bought out Allison and its now the 7000 system or whatever. I would like to stay with the twin distributor system, in my somewhat baseless attempt at keeping the car looking like it was supposed to. I don't think there are any four banger caps that could be modified to work on these, so I am stuck with stock caps for now. I hate the idea of using two MSD 6AL's, but the only other way I know to have rev control is with a seperate rev control unit. More thoughts?? Does Mallory make a flat four cylinder cap. If so, maybe one could do a twin mallory distributor setup?
     
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