CRAZY book

The Russians had no way of knowing that. Marcel and Brazel's story went straight to the press without going through the AF first, so the story got legs and an article was written that said they had recovered a crashed spaceship. What would you expect the base commander to do? The smartest thing he COULD do was to show some samples of the debris and say "no worries, just a weather balloon..Marcel's an idiot" How would the Russians expect that it could possibly be anything more? Besides, I don't think they even cared, no one else at the time did. Had this actually been a crashed spaceship, it would have been the story of the millenium. The single most important scientific discovery EVER. Yet no one cares. Does that tell you something?

-R

 

Challenge

Sounds like an interesting book. I also enjoyed re-reading the link MarkPDX posted.

William H makes a great point in that thread about it being easier to see who is in control in small countries. Central America is the same, a very small group of families control things including the government. Would not shock me to find that this country or even the world is much different.

William, in that first thread you said you saw a big UFO. What's the story?

 

What about the Skull and Bones Secret Society at Yale........very well documented group.........thier "membership lists" are a who's who among the worlds most powerful leaders..........does anyone here know much about it, or did anyone here attend Yale

 

Robin said:
"of those 25, only a dozen or so were actual witnesses to anything surrounding the events, and of those, only 5 made any claims that they actually saw or handled some debris from the wreckage, and of those, all of them have massive holes in their stories (3 of which are cited above)."

Please explain to me what "massive holes" are in the story from Marcel's son?

Robin said:
"It's funny you mention that, because oddly enough, there was NO story between 1947 and 1978, when some whack job UFO geek decided to write a book about it. Marcel was an unobscure nobody for 31 years, then suddenly he was a superstar eyewitness to aliens on earth."

The above statement is simply not true. I was aware of this story back during the 1960s when I was in grade school. The reoccuring story about the Air Force recovering a downed UFO was well entrenched in the UFO community long before 1978. The first interview that I saw with Jesse Marcel was on Leonard Nimoy's TV show "In Search Of" which began airing in 1977.

And your arguments all have a very hollow ring to them because you conveniently do NOTHING to discredit Marcel's son who has repeatedly said in numerous interviews that he DID personally examine the UFO crash debris on the kitchen floor of his home the night that his dad returned from the debris field.

Why do you conveniently ignore the word of this man? It's not like he is reaping massive publicity from this story. Most people wouldn't even know who Jesse Marcel was, much less know who his son is or any stories that he has told about a 57 year old UFO crash.

Would you call him a liar to his face?

 

And let us not forget some other 'stellar' 20th century 'world domination theory' works of art: Protocols of The Elders of Zion; Red Symphony; The Myth of Six Million, and, of course, Mein Kampf, all of which place blame for all the world's problems on another group of individuals.

I worked many years ago with a German mechanic who was a member of some kind of Secret Society during the war that wore skulls and crossbones. Don't know if he meant Yale or not.

Anyway, the truth as I see it:

1. Lee Harvey Oswald worked alone

2. Whatever it was in Roswell, it WASN'T ET.

3. Area 51 builds secret aircraft, not Alien autopsys. There are no Alien Grays, bit I HAVE seen Alien Browns in Calif. Every now and then some of them wound up on the USS Borderpatrolbus and were beamed up to Planet Tijuana.

4. Elvis is dead. Long live the King.

5. The WWF is fake

6 Black unmarked helocopters just haven't been painted yet

7. Big Foot, Loch Ness, Mothmen and Dinosauers in South America are fun fantasys but are the product of exagerated imaginations and perhaps eating too many plant products or molds on the DEA no-no list.

8. the Grand Canyon was formed over a period of millions of years, not in the few days following Noah's flood. And no, Joan of Arc is NOT Noah's wife.

8a. whatever it is up top of Mt. Ararat, its NOT Noah's Ark.

9. UFOs are real; they just don't come from outer space. They're just unidentified. See # 3.

10. whatever those little girls saw in Fatima, it wasn't the virgin mother; John Edward doesn't talk to the dead; the Burmuda Trangle has some really piss-poor weather patterns, nothing more, nothing less.

11. Fox News is no more 'fair and balanced' than The Peoples Repblic of China is the peoples, The old German Democratic Republic was Democratic, or the USSRepublics were Republics. (I do like Bill O'reily though)

 

I too have come to some conclusions using Robin's logic.

Enron is a great company and the rumors of internal financial swindling is all a myth.

Richard Nixon was not a crook and was not involved in Watergate. He just resigned during the middle of his term because he got tired of White House food.

Britney Spears does not exist because I have not personally seen her or examined her and all the proof of her existance is merely the purpetuated stories of other people. I must assume that all the photographs, music, and videos of her are merely hoaxes and therefore she does not exist.

There, I guess that wraps up everything.

 

Not aware of any 'holes' per se in his story, just the main witnesses who came forward years later. As for Marcel's son, he was how old at the time? Six or seven maybe? When I was that age, I believed that a big fat guy flew around the planet on a sled drawn by flying deer, distributing gift boxes down chimneys. I don't doubt that Marcel picked up some weird metal in the desert, took it home to his family, said "hey this is some weird stuff that came from a spacecraft!" and his son believed it. Marcel has been shown to be a liar and exaggerater, so if his son's only connection to the story is that his dad brought home some metal that he was told was from a spaceship, I think his story can be pretty much discounted.

Yes, in the UFO community. Don't you think that if the U.S. really did recover an alien spaceship, it would be more widely known that just through the fringe society of gullible people? The fact that the scientific community has no interest in this or any other alleged alien crash site or spaceship sighting is pretty telling. These are the kinds of people who would love nothing better than to see evidence of extraterrestrial life. They were involved early on and still get involved to this day just as a voice of reason... Project Blue Book for instance... Carl Sagan was on the board that reviewed every known UFO sighting and crash site, and even he, the pre-imminent dreamer of the day, said that there was no compelling evidence to make him think any of these cases were true.

Again, I'm not going to base the most important discovery ever made on the word of a prepube kid because his dad, a known liar, told him a fancy story over 50 years ago.

And that means nothing to you? No one knows them.. the guys who have PROOF and EVIDENCE of alien life on earth... and no one's ever heard of them. Tells you something don't it?

I'm a nice guy, so no, and I don't think he's a lair. Assuming the conversation steered in the right direction though, I would say he was mistaken, not a liar. Kids believe what their parents tell them, even after being presented with evidence to the contrary. Just ask any adult Mormon how the native Americans got here...

Just as an aside.. I too was like you. Believed in all this stuff... read all the books, watched all the tv shows. I was 13-14 at the time, but still. I eventually read some objective reports and came to the conclusion that the only reason I believed that BS is because I wanted to, not because there was any compelling argument to prove it to be true.

-R

 

Agree with most of these with the exception of #7. "Experts" proclaimed the Celocanth extinct right up until a fisherman caught one.

 

Agreed!

 

thanks for the snopes.com link i had forgotten all about that site

 

I think MarkG and sjmst are working for them...

 

Gee Robin, now youre extrapolating the story to the point where you are declaring that Marcel was a liar AND a bad father because he knowingly lied to his son. Now you're really reaching. So where are your facts to back up you're statement that Marcel lied to his own son? Did you interview Marcel's wife that was also there in the kitchen that night?

Robin said"
"Project Blue Book for instance... Carl Sagan was on the board that reviewed every known UFO sighting and crash site, and even he, the pre-imminent dreamer of the day, said that there was no compelling evidence to make him think any of these cases were true."

Be aware that Project Blue Book only reviewed the cases that it WANTED to review. There were many incidents that were conviently dismissed and not included. Hmmmm, could it be because they had NO credible explanation for some of them?

Robin said: "As for Marcel's son, he was how old at the time? Six or seven maybe? When I was that age, I believed that a big fat guy flew around the planet on a sled drawn by flying deer, distributing gift boxes down chimneys."

Sorry that you were so sheltered as a youth Robin. When I was 9 years old, I was reading "Flying Saucers Serious Business" by Frank Edwards which is a classic book about UFOs. In that same year, 1966, I was lying out in my back yard at 3 0'clock in the morning watching the Leonid meteor shower through binoculars. Not saying that I believe everything in that book, but I found it informative.

As for Carl Sagan, he was an astronomer. What do his creditentials as an astronomer have to do with the wreckage of an unknown flying object in New Mexico. That's like saying that a bank financial examiner is qualified to discuss the wreckage of an armored car in the desert with bags of money lying in the middle of the highway.

I always like the way that UFO skeptics pounce on one or two cases, and with some half baked logic declare it a load of bunk. It would seem that the proper scientific method would be to analyze the situation with an open mind. But most UFO debunkers approach the whole situation with the attitude that "it's all a bunch of bunk concocted by wackos."
Not very open minded.

So how do you explain the radiation on the debris from Captain Mantell"s P-51 Mustang that crashed in Kentucky while he was chasing a UFO? Of course I'm sure you believe that he was chasing the planet Venus like the "status quo" believes. And what about Deputy Sheriff Lonnie Zamora in Soccorro, New Mexico who observed small beings entering an egg shaped spacecraft and take off into the sky during broad daylight. The craft even left indentations in the ground which were photographed. But you probably haven't heard of that case therefore you must conclude that it's just a fabrication.

It always amazes me how the UFO debunkers will bend over backwards with outlandish explanations on HOW the UFO sightings are natural phenomenon. Like a swarm of fireflys or swamp gas. Yet after a hundred years of modern scientific biological widelife studies, there is not one naturalist or outdoorsman or biologist who could EVER supply you with ONE photograph of swarming fireflies or blobs of swamp gas or any other oddball phenomen that they conveniently use as a plausible explanation.

I can believe that an alien would be of such advanced intelligence that they could develope interplantary spacecraft. That's understandable.
But I would easily pay $100 to observe a swarm of fireflys group themselves into a flying formation shaped like a spacecraft and proceed to fly and glow at the same time. That would be a phenomenon much rarer that UFOs. Funny how nobody has every actually observed such a phenomenon that the UFO debunkers seem to think is so common.

 

So does this mean you folks don't believe in Krlll or Krill, the Alien Embassador to Earth...?

 

Krill???? The tiny crustacean that whales eat??

 

Hardy har har...

 

Surely you must be referring to "Krell" metal which was produced by the aliens in the movie "Forbidden Planet". Now that I think about it, I'm not so sure that was "metal" after all. It was probably a mass of cohesive fireflies clumping themselves together in an entomological crystaline structure that simulates metal. Mistaking this so called "firefly metal" for "alien metal" is a common mistake. I stand corrected.

 

Is this the same David Icke that used to be a Sports presenter on TV here in the UK? A few years ago he suddenly started wearing turquoise tracksuits and spouting wierd theories. I miss him. He was funny.

 

The only convincing argument I've ever heard on the secret society/UN/World Bank thing came from a guy I knew in college who turned out to be a pathological liar (long story). I DO believe that there are definitely secret combinations that do conspire, mostly organized crime (Mafia/Yakuza/TriAd) stuff.

And I totally believe many things were lost in the Dark Ages (esp before typesetting and general literacy) when unscrupulous religious leaders removed scriptural, historical and scientific knowledge from the common record.

I am worried about one group taking over America, but it looks like they will lose the 2004 election if Dean is nominated! (As a side note, I do think being a rich Dem is the best of both worlds: put your money in tax-minimizing trusts, RE and corporations's and then vote "for the little guy" on other people's money!!)

There are different levels of social strata that I'm sure have their priorities (global CEO's, banks, Euro royalty) but I don't think it's some organized thing, more like everyone acting as economic man in their own interest.

 

Wandering through Barnes & Noble today and spotted a new book by Jim Marrs...... I haven't read any of his other books and probably won't get around to reading this one either but I do find it interesting to read inside of the cover. Thought it was worth digging up this thread as I wouldn't know who Jim Marrs is without Carbon's posts on this forum

The Rise of the Fourth Reich: The Secret Societies That Threaten to Take Over America

 

Freemasonry??? Have you looked recently at what the membership in the Masons and Eastern Star is doing. My father-in-law was a mason of the whatever the highest degree is, Scottish Rite and a Shriner. My mother-in-law was and still is some kind of worthy matron or something and has held many different offices. Masonry is actually not so secret. Just go up to one of them and ask what it takes to become one, get their recommendation, fill out the application and you are in. The membership is dying off with very few younger people wanting to join that they are really opening up their membership to just about anyone who wants to join.

Does any of this come from the findings recently about the "oil speculators" manipulating the value of oil? They trade it in Europe where it is not regulated like here in the US but office here. Makes it sound like a huge conspiracy to control world oil when actually it is the epitome of free enterprise and trying to make as much money as possible. Perhaps it has been distorted and the speculators have let money become their god and do not think of how it will impact the rest of the world. But is it a conspiracy to run the world and put it under one power, military, currecncy? I think not.

It is just like many more of the fraternal organizations right now, Moose, Elk, VFW etc. They were immensely popular after WW2 but the interest in them has waned and they are losing members in many of their chapters mostly due to attrition. In the beginnings of our country Freemasonry was a popular thing to be a part of. Today that is not the case. I think the average age I am seeing is in their 70's and getting older. I do not worry about the Masons/Shriners/Eastern Star of today planning on making this a one world government. I just worry when I see one of them on the road behind the wheel of a car.......

 

when alex jones says david icke "**** in the punch bowl", that is high praise. anyway, icke puts alot of it together well. If only he hadn't gone off to africa and met that shaman that told him the reptilian alien thing.... Interesting point is that that is pretty much what the nation of Islam believes. anyway , good for you for looking past the curtain. let me give you a few more credible sources and the shoulders these guys are standing on.

read this book, pretty much explains it all

Tragedy and hope-carroll quigley

Foundations-their power and influence rene wormser

also read
the creature from jekyll island edward griffin

recent
web of debt ellen brown

watch these docu's
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=money+masters&ei=5CSNSKvIM4rq4gLrrsmHCA

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727&q=the+power+of+nightmares&ei=ZiWNSLavNZzA4AL7zLX0Bw (3 parts)

this one has a goofy name and is sort of boring, but watch it and listen closely, it's shocking
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7373201783240489827&q=reece+commision&ei=0yaNSOecFouS4wKrm-H-Bw

there are many more good sources for information on who runs things, but this should keep you busy for awhile.

Icke is entertaining and has a lot of really good info, but he really "****s in the puchbowl" when he gets around to the shapeshifting reptiles.

 

Hey I found a photo of David Ickes:

But seriously- I thought this thread was about Robert Gaylon http://infowars-shop.stores.yahoo.net/eldodaletust.html

I saw several of that guys books on the wall of a mom & pop burger joint a couple of years ago. I think it's all BS, but I had to take a look. The owner of the restaurant came over and started talking to me. He went into all kinds of weird BS, including the 200mpg carburetor. Then he started talking about how a small group of people rule the world. This guy was from Turkey, so I just had to ask "Are they Jews?" "Yes!". Oh brother.
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what's even funnier is the docu i saw on icke where the jdl thought his shape shifting reptiles was a code name for jews. they followed him around trying to get his talks banned. the funny part is, he really does think they are shape shifting reptiles. and the jdl is equally convinced it's jews. it was hilarious.

 

s&b are basically a group that's derived to become as powerful as they can. in the 04 election, both bush and kerry were/are members, so it was essentially a win-win for them. there's a lot to them, but what we think we know about them is basically just best guess.