CS brake fade...

All I gotta say is that if you have fade driving a CS on the street, get thyself to a dealer, quick!

Dale

 

i had a friend who had a similar experience. apparently the brakes may not have been "bedded" properly at the factory before they delivered the car. i'm not an expert but i think it's important that the brakes be "broken in" properly for them to work properly. talk to your dealer. they may have a way to break in the brakes or maybe they will have to replace the pads. ferrari claims you can drive 100+ laps at fiorano with no fade at all.

 

First guess: bleed the brakes (get any air bubbles out).

Second guess: how old is the car (in time, not miles)? Perhaps there's some moisture in the brake fluid?

Third guess: brake surface got compromised somehow (perhaps bad bed-in). Take it out to an open road and brake fairly hard (but absolutely no ABS) from 80 to 20 about a dozen times allowing a bit of cool down between brakings... the goal is to thoroughly remove any funky surface situation on pads or rotors.

Fourth guess: some sort of physical problem with brake lines or calipers causing it to misbehave.

However, the answer for all that with a new car under warranty is probably the same...

Take it to the dealer and tell them to fix it... requesting that they bleed or replace the fluid. There is absolutely NO WAY you should be experiencing brake fade in a CS on the street... unless you are driving around holding the brake down partially while flooring the gas pedal.

 

With that few of miles, it's most likely simply not bedded in yet. The factory does not bed in new brakes. The suggestion for a dozen 80-20 sequences is sage advice. If that doesn't help, take it to the dealer for a full inspection.

Martin

 

ben,

you have to bed them proactively. you have probably glazed the surfaces with hard braking w/o bed in. this happened to me in my first gt2, and i did notice similar feel in my CS until i reached 600 miles and was comfortable accelerating, and then bedded them as Brian described, although with increasing braking, never going to zero and cool down between. you'll feel them bed in.

read this:

http://www.stoptech.com/whitepapers/warped_rotors_myth.htm

 

there is one situation in which I experience a type of fade too and that is when the brakes are stone cold – the brakes feel as if they don’t grip at all and that only 60% of the stopping power is available – if I go out in the morning I brake two / there times hard now

I always wonder if other CS owner experience the same – it actually got me into an iffy situation on a highway exit so I am watching out for it now – since it goes away after several brake applications I blame it on temperature but it also could be that there is a film / oxidation on the disk surface

If your car has 1K miles don’t bother bedding the brakes; the surfaces are already mated – what you have is what you get – but if you still want to do it there are several threads on FChat about it and I included the factory instructions in one

I would check with the dealer and let them inspect the brakes

On a side note F has changed the brake wear algorithm and there is a campaign to replace the instrument cluster programming – don’t know if it is for better or worse

 

That's not fade, they just simply haven't reached operating temperature yet. In general, the higher perfomance the brakes, the hotter they have to be to work effectively.

Gary

 

My only issue with the brakes "not working" is after I wash the car and when the discs are cold and wet! The first time I got caught out unaware!!

The instrument cluster programming is because the cars were originally programmed to have a warning light go off in the little window saying service brakes at 10 000 kms (6000 miles) - this actually happened on mine at exactly 10 000kms. But as Ferrari have gotten a huge amount of feedback on the brakes and dealers and importers alike have paid close attention to them they are reprogramming that warning not to go off.

 

hi thomas,

here's the jpeg you posted that shows (hard to read) the bedding procedure in the CS manual.

this is the procedure that i was given by a friend inside ferrari:
************
break in brakes (for the 360CS this has been done before the car is delivered)

No need to do it again, once the brakes have been cured and the resin
deposited onto the disc all is ready.

Brake 40 to 50 times from about 60Kph with a 2 second press of the pedal. No
ABS intervention is allowed and create about .3 G force. Between each
application allow 15 seconds of cooling down for the brakes.

Then brake hard from 200 Kph to 40 Kph with ABS intervention. Then allow 2
Km of cooling at 60 Kph. Repeat this a total of 4 times.

Then drive for 3Km with out braking to cool brakes again.

When ever heavy breaking has been used such as a track day session never
stop the car without cooling the brakes.

 

If your statement is true one would experience the same problem after long highway drives without hitting the brakes since they would cool down completely – I at minimum have not experienced that

Yes I agree – this is the most likely theory – but I have the problem the next day so the brakes can not be wet anymore

 

The most I have ever experienced with mine is a vague feeling that the initial bite on a cold set of brakes isn't as great... but further application heats the brakes almost instantly enough to where it stops just fine.

On the track (as opposed to the street), I do notice a little less stopping power the first lap as the brakes come to full temp... but that's threshold braking... which almost never happens on the street... and if it does, it'll always be at that somewhat reduced stopping power (we're talking a few % here).

My brakes work just fine cold and wet. At least as cold as I've had them so far. I may learn more whenever winter finally arrives and we actually get some truly cold weather. I'll definitely be a bit careful as each new colder day comes on this winter.

 

Well, I guarantee you they aren't "fading" if they're cold. Fade is ALWAYS a result of heat.

Gary

 

Just want to make sure about this. Is there anything special that needs to be done with regard to "breaking in" the brakes on a new CS?

 

Just like where Ali Haas has pointed out in his oil thread that engines need to be warmed up before running hard, it is the same with the CS brakes. Just imagine that you are waking up your lover at 3:00 am in the morning. Get her warmed up first!

Dale

ps I forgot to answer your question. No, there is no bedding in break in time for the brakes.

 

huh? maybe you should warm up your brain before constructing sentences, doc

doody.

 

Brake my chops will ya? Well, call me weird, but I ain't taking my breaks to bed!

ps At least, I know how to use the caps key.

 

lol. i'ts a fair cop, guv'nor!

in all seriousness, i could not parse your response to goodwood. clearly the brake pads need bedding in. does the factory do this during its 60 mi to 100 mi of delivery-mile testing? or do we need to do it?

doody.

 

I was told by one of the techs at FOH, who also works on the race cars, two things:

1. The factory does not break in brakes.

2. The ceramic brakes used by Ferrari do not require "bedding in" similar to the steel ones. Apparently, ceramic is pretty tough stuff. Warping the rotors is hard to do.

3. However, the ceramic brakes need warming up EVERY TIME before you use them hard, just like the engine oil.

Finally, when I was in New Orleans, I heard an interesting comment from a guy who has raced Challenge and GT cars. He liked the progressive feel of the CS brakes much more than the light switch on the race cars. That is, the race cars have maybe 1/2 inch of play. They are either full on or full of. The CS gives a lot more feel.

I was also told by an Enzo owner that you should never use tire dressing. Apparently, some Enzo guys found out that if any tire dressing gets on the ceramic rotors it creates a hot spot that eventually toasts the rotor. Because I believe that tire dressing is really gay (it's a freakin tire!), I wasn't worried. But, I thought that you might like to know this.

Dale



Dale