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CS Ceramic Brake Rotor mileage/wear/issues update

Discussion in '360/430' started by watt, Nov 10, 2004.

  1. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,312
    Way Back In, NZ
    Full Name:
    Giuseppe T Hemingway
    Would you high mile and heavy track CS owners please update us on your rotor wear if any? rotor issues, if any?

    I have heard of no problems whatsoever so far.....

    Peter? Brian??? etc???? thanks
     
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  3. Bill S

    Bill S Formula 3

    Oct 2, 2004
    1,995
    Why ask if no problems? Just curious.
     
  4. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
    Global Moderator Owner

    Nov 26, 2001
    24,981
    E ' ' '/ F
    Full Name:
    Dindu Nuffin

    It's not irrational to confirm the accuracy of your data.
     
  5. Auraraptor

    Auraraptor F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Sep 25, 2002
    11,491
    MO
    Or for that matter learn if possible how often others who regularly make full use of their CS are getting in terms of mileage out of their rotors.
     
  6. AHG

    AHG Karting

    Jul 10, 2004
    234
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Would also be useful for those thinking about them as an option for the F430, especially if you intend to track one.
     
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  8. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
    2,249
    Lausanne Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Peter Mann

    At the close of the season I have 12000 kms (7500 miles) on the car of which 7500/8000 kms (approx 5000 miles) of track. I have been through 7 sets of tyres and 5 complete sets of pads. One rear disc was replaced under warranty due to "a defect and/or damage" - not that I had noticed anything in particular.

    The discs themselves are as new. Was speaking to a person at the factory yesterday who added that the in-house testers are very confident that one should not have to change discs. I certainly hope so!

    For the past year I have been a "Testing Partner" (this is a customer who reports on a monthly basis about the car - good and bad) so they have paid particular attention to my car, as they consider it to be the one that gets driven the hardest amongst their testing Partners. All I can say, is that notwithstanding the outrageous price of pads, I have never experienced a car that brakes like the CS and keeps on braking with no fade, warp or problem whatsoever. The hotter the brakes get the better they perform.

    Rgds

    Peter
     
  9. Koby

    Koby Formula 3

    Dec 14, 2003
    2,300
    The Borough, NJ
    Full Name:
    Jason Kobies
    Perfectly valid question, especially in light of how much trouble Porsche has had with similar technology. Great to hear the the disks are holding up! Forza.
     
  10. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    chalstrad - you're going through a set of pads every 1,250 miles? is that a correct deduction from your data? front and rears?

    what are people paying for pads? i've heard about $1500 per axle - is this correct?

    doody.
     
  11. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Is this a Ferrari factory program? First I've ever heard of it. When you quoted your mileage in kms I thought you must be in Europe.


    Interesting. The Porsche PCCB premature damage and failure was attributed to excessive heat, and I understand the 997 has much improved cooling.

    Gary
     
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  13. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
    2,249
    Lausanne Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Peter Mann
    Fronts wear faster than rears, but at the very beginning I went through a set of rears very quickly as I was not comfortable enough at the time to turn off the ASR and with it on when the car "looses" traction the rear brakes are applied....

    Also the early pads had their "wear" sensors placed at a very shallow point in the pad - this has since been corrected. So in the early days we were changing pads "unnecessarily" but Ferrari preferred it that way as we were in "uncharted" territory and mine was also the first car delivered in France.

    Bear in mind that the only road miles I do are those to and from race tracks, so my real usage is almost exclusively on tracks.

    In Europe, the price of pads has been significantly revised down. We are now at 880 euros per axle plus VAT and labour. Still expensive but a whole lot less than before.

    Rgds
     
  14. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
    2,249
    Lausanne Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Peter Mann
    "Testing Partners" is a factory programme whereby they choose a few select customers to do the analysis. With the CS, the idea was to have the track nut on the one hand and the regular road user on the other.

    I live in the US but keep and use the CS in Europe - where i lived for a number of years before coming home to the US.

    My understanding of the PCCB system is that Porsche were concerned about the braking inefficiency of carbon when cold and as a result their system was designed with a far greater ratio of ceramic in it and that the flip side was that the ceramic did not "deal" with the heat that well. Both the ferrari and porsche systems are made by brembo, but are quite different. As a matter of fact if you look at a Ferrari CCM disc and at a Porsche PCCB one there is a visual difference in the "texture" of the disc.
     
  15. Doody

    Doody F1 Veteran

    Nov 16, 2001
    6,099
    MA USA
    Full Name:
    Mr. Doody
    not to hijack the thread, but are you sure the discs are both made by brembo? i thought the PCCBs were manufactured by someone else...

    doody.
     
  16. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    That's what I understood also...different sources. Just word of mouth, tho.

    Gary
     
  17. India Whiskey Charlie

    India Whiskey Charlie Formula Junior

    May 24, 2001
    554
    Way Out West
    Porsche's PCCB discs were developped and are made by SGL Carbon.

    http://www.sglcarbon.com/sgl_t/brakedisc/index.html
     
  18. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
    2,249
    Lausanne Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Peter Mann
    Looks like you are correct!!

    My apologies to Brembo, then who have made a truly exceptional product that is completely trouble free!!

    Thanks for the correction!
     
  19. speedracer5

    speedracer5 Karting

    Oct 15, 2004
    87
    Northeast, USA
    ChalStrad,

    When did Ferrari change the position of the sensor? Or did they move it?

    This is very interesting about the ceramics. I have been thinking of ordering them on my F430. It is good to hear the wear has not been very high. What is the wear like from the other gentleman doing the testing that drives on the road more than the track? Is his car a Stradale as well?

    Thank you to all that have provided the info.
     
  20. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
    2,249
    Lausanne Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Peter Mann
    The sensors were moved deeper into the pads end"03 / early '04 as i recall.

    None of the CSs (or Enzos) that I "play" with have experienced any issues with discs so far. To give you an idea, there are at least 4 CSs with 12000kms + each and a couple of Enzos with 15 000 kms + all hard miles or kms(!) The CS that is doing the road testing now does more track than road - although he was clocked at 310 km/h last week with a Police Officer in the passenger seat on a "public" highway (not in the US!!!) - so at least we know that a CS will "clear" 300 km/h!!

    One of our enzo buddies has officially (computer download confirmed) done 349 km/h, 362 km/h and 373 km/h (which is 233 MILES PER HOUR!!!)
     
  21. exoticalex

    exoticalex Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2004
    421
    Walnut Creek, Ca
    Full Name:
    Alex L
    233mph!!!!!!!! What vehicle was this done in, and was it on a track or public roads!! That so insane, i like it!!!!!
     
  22. GoodWood

    GoodWood Formula Junior

    Oct 2, 2004
    351
    SE Florida/Indiana
    Full Name:
    Steve
    pretty sure that speed was accomplished in an "Enzo". Afterall, very few other cars on this earth are capable of such velocities ;) Whether is was done on a track or a public road, that's anybody's guess, since it IS Europe he's referencing ;) But, the mention of it being computer recorded, again, I'm fairly certain this was done at a track. And to think, I've never been over 150mph!
     
  23. millemiglia

    millemiglia Formula Junior

    Jan 14, 2003
    925
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Full Name:
    Peter B.
    I've been doing 170mph, but I can't imagine what another 60mph would feel like! Unreal!

    /Peter
     
  24. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
    2,249
    Lausanne Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Peter Mann
    An Enzo buddy is by definition an Enzo owner! It is a yellow Enzo and it was on a public road. The highest speed attained is registered on the car's computer. It is the actual speed and not the speedometer indicated speed.
     
  25. exoticalex

    exoticalex Formula Junior

    Mar 10, 2004
    421
    Walnut Creek, Ca
    Full Name:
    Alex L
    Whoops, didnt catch the "Enzo buddy" reference! Gosh i feel stupid!
     

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