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CS Market

Discussion in '360/430' started by stokpro, Mar 13, 2010.

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  1. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Oct 29, 2010
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    yeah, likely pretty close to any sort of "market norm" this very illiquid market can suggest. Non-red (yeah, yeah, we all know many of us love some silver, grey, black, yellow, etc) non factory striped cars with over "collection level" mileage are not going to get strong money. The last two examples are good illustrations of that. Ingenere's car and this black one; the titanio with 20k miles went for no more than $165k, while the Black one with 13k miles went for $177k (price to the buyer).

    Gotta have sub 10k miles be red and/or have a factory stripe or very low owner number to get $200k. Regardless, these things had an MSRP in the USA of $200k on average, so they are pretty darn close to that after 15 years...and well above msrp if you didnt' drive it...and we wonder where the concept of not driving your ferrari comes from :rolleyes:
     
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  2. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
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    Spot on!

    I'm still driving mine and I still love it. You win whether you drive them or not.
     
  3. Mikestradale

    Mikestradale F1 Rookie

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  4. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    A driver CS for sub $120k? Heck yes. (whether its insurable and can be registered, I have no idea. But a properly repaired CS for that amount of money to actually drive the snot out of and not lose much going forward? Sounds smart to me...)
     
  5. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
    4,212
    I drove my CS today on some epic country roads. There’s simply no other car like it.
    Just a great driving experience.
     
    tomc, Mikestradale, Oengus and 7 others like this.
  6. Oengus

    Oengus F1 World Champ
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    I agree AZ Italian
     
  7. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    #10083 arizonaitalian, Nov 22, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2019
    Three recent sales came in a bit below the ranges I posted back in August.

    > Red + Factory Stripe + 3k miles = $235k
    > Black one with 13k miles went for $177k
    > Titanio with 20k miles went for no more than $165k

    Maybe need to lower the ranges by 5-10k in each case...although stripe and red make a sizeable difference and account for some of the "underage" on the black and titanio cars. Maybe should say the above ranges are for "red with stripe" and then deduct $5-10k for not red and $5-10k for no stripe. That would get you to the actual sale prices of the black and titanio cars.

    Also, the upper end "collectible" sales are few and far between, but clearly the top of the market is no longer ~$300k range as it was for a couple of sales back in 2015. Looks more like $230's now.

    Of course these data points confirm for an owner just how much driving each mile costs them :)

    I mean heaven forbid a 15 year old car have 15-20k miles on it! :confused:
     
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  8. rampante550

    rampante550 Formula Junior

    Jul 20, 2010
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    D Day

    Great chart. I'm a little annoyed this wasn't taught in business school. Is there a relationship version of this chart? :)
     
  9. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Dec 22, 2009
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    I think about the mileage cost every time I drive it. And decide each time it’s totally worth it ! Fact is , there is no other car out there like it and no car like it will ever be made again. I just went out to the garage and looked at it with a cover over it, still looked great ! Drove it exactly as intended yesterday and it was as good of a driving experience as I’ll ever likely enjoy.
     
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  10. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    In 2004, Ferrari released an epic modern car that nobody saw coming.
    And now, every manufacturer out there is trying to copy it.
     
  11. Natkingcolebasket69

    Natkingcolebasket69 F1 World Champ

    It sold pretty fast too!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. Mikestradale

    Mikestradale F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2006
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    9 CS auctions in 2019 (that I know of). First price is hammer price, second price including fees.

    136359 was auctioned twice, but the first auction was cancelled (I don’t know the official reason, but the car has an accident history, so you can make a guess).

    This is copy/pasted from my website, not sure if the flag/color icons show up.

    11/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 137762 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 5000 km / factory stripe / rollbar Silverstone Auctions $220000 $235400
    11/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 136110 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 13233 miles / radio / fire extinguisher Bring a Trailer $172000 $177000
    08/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 134741 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 10k miles / factory stripe / luggage RM Sotheby's $195000 $218400
    08/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 134376 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 9821 miles / radio / extinguisher Bonhams $143000 No sale
    06/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 139355 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 9921 km / incident Catawiki €?????? No sale
    04/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 136359 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 37215 km / accident Alcopa Auction €93000 €105200
    03/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 137802 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 15052 miles / one-off color Bring A Trailer $159000 No sale
    03/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 136359 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 37215 km / accident Alcopa Auction €121000 €137000
    01/2019 Image Unavailable, Please Login 138536 Image Unavailable, Please Login [​IMG] Image Unavailable, Please Login 9885 miles / track incident Barrett-Jackson $150000 $165000
     
  13. SlowScud

    SlowScud Karting

    Oct 10, 2019
    84
    Texas
    The only reason that miles hurts value is because there are too many people that don’t drive. So relative market positioning for cars that get driven is hurt.

    Truth is these cars actually have a lot of longevity when cared for. So lets just all commit to driving them as much as possible and then no one has to worry about mileage :)

    The other benefit is you get to spend a good chunk of life in one of the greatest machines ever produced. Win win.
     
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  14. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Very well said.
     
  15. ifeelfree0

    ifeelfree0 Formula Junior
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    Can all the collectors hear that? Driving these beauties increases the valueo_O
     
  16. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    #10092 arizonaitalian, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
    So, of the 9;

    3 were "no sale"
    3 were "damage history" cars

    Leaving 3 market sales (to use a phrase) of supposedly non-damaged cars. Adding Ingenere's car and my car from last year, we get this for known-price recent sales:

    Red/factory stripe/3k miles = $235k
    Black/factory stripe/luggage/10k miles = $218k (I'd speculate the luggage added ~$8k, so call it around $210k without)
    Red/factory stripe/19k miles = $185k
    Black/no stripe/13k miles = $177k
    Titanio/no stripe/20k miles = $165k

    Makes me think a market model might look like this (rounded off for simplicity):

    Red/stripe/5k miles = $240k
    Red/stripe/10k miles = $220k
    Red/stripe/15k miles = $200k
    Red/stripe/20k miles = $180k

    Deduct ~$10k for non red
    Deduct ~$10k for no factory stripe

    And, to repeat, these are rounded off generously and the market is very ill-liquid and condition and history matters (as does selling time and forum), so precise market calculus does not exist. And, of course there are "one off" considerations that can add value - like the CdF car or the rare blue or whatever. But as a guide +/- 5%, I suspect this is good enough for the moment.
     
  17. ifeelfree0

    ifeelfree0 Formula Junior
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    So a devils advocate question...Is an aftermarket stripe worth 5K? If a factory stripe is worth 10 K
     
  18. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    Good question. Since it cost $300 plus installation, at 5k it would be a great return on investment.
     
  19. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Pretty sure the sticker is 1k to buy from the stealer
     
  20. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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  21. RANDY6005

    RANDY6005 Formula 3
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  22. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    Doubt a non factory aftermarket sticker wld command any premium
     
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  23. ifeelfree0

    ifeelfree0 Formula Junior
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    Maybe the more relevant question may be is there any premium for an aftermarket stripe? Personally- I wouldn’t pay a premium if it wasn’t an OEM strupe
     
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  24. SlowScud

    SlowScud Karting

    Oct 10, 2019
    84
    Texas
    Am I the only one that thinks no stripe is cool in its own way?
     

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