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CS/Speciale/Pista Convergence

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by ttforcefed, Feb 3, 2021.

  1. Challenge64

    Challenge64 F1 Veteran
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    Jul 28, 2004
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    I think what you are all ignoring is what happens after the Pista. My info tells me that there will not be a special series F8 and after that the V8 is history. The new world will be V6 Hybrid.

    I think the assessment that the CS has been and will always be the benchmark and the first of a series of 4 great special models of cars. However, after owning a CS for about 10 years I honestly don't miss it.

    I still own my Speciale and my Pista Spider and as far as driving experience would rate the Pista as the best. Of course each of the 4 represent something significant in Ferrari history so really none can be really diminished.
     
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  3. Enzo Belair

    Enzo Belair Formula Junior
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    They are amazing collector cars, but you are correct so many in serious disrepair, they are complicated and expensive to work on and most have real needs due to neglect over the past 15 years.

    But they are beautiful inside and out IMO...

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  4. Enzo Belair

    Enzo Belair Formula Junior
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    This is true, my dealer confirmed the F8 is the last V8 and the Pista the last V8 lightweight, as we all suspected the next car is 100% confirmed V6 hybrid.
     
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  5. marknkidz

    marknkidz Formula 3
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    eventually i think they will all cross.. owning both, i can tell ya the SCUD is a better car all around than the CS (04 vs 09 technology!) But as ive said in other threads, if one had to go it would NOT be the CS... I was also told the SCUD was the Last car built by the factory before going public.. before the penny pinchers got involved in squeezing every nickel of profit and cutting some production corners.. not sure how true that is. In any case all wonderful Autos!
     
  6. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

    Jun 25, 2005
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    So nice....I was about $100k short of being able to afford a good example. That was my last shot before retirement in a few years. Don't get me wrong, I am happy with what I bought....and it's a little similar as it has a rear clamshell and a beautiful engine compartment.
     
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  8. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Ferrari went public early 2016, after planning in 2015. So the 458, F12, Speciale and even the 488 were all designed in a private company (the 488 was introduced in 2015 but it was certainly designed before for the most part).
     
  9. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
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    Owned Speciale, Pista and now CS.
    Agree with your comments.
    But will add that the CS is the one I kept and adore and am looking to buy more of them. The looks are stunning, and it is such a real race car for the street vs Speciale etc that it’s just a remarkable throwback. The sound is insane when you pin the valves with a switch.

    As for values, I dont see CS passing Pista. The best of the best CS’s sell for less than $300k still. But like many of us owners with OEM and mint, I wouldn’t sell mine even for $400k as it’s not replaceable.
     
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  10. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    WANTED to BUY...yellow CS! Love it.
     
  11. Twosherpaz

    Twosherpaz Formula Junior
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    The 16M is vastly under priced right now. Only 499 in the world! All the great sound of the Scud but with a convertible top. Glass engine cover.

    On a test drive of the Scud, my dealer said “if you don’t see the lights on the steering wheel, you can downshift.” I’ve used that as my guide ever since.

    Full disclosure, I have five 16Ms, a Scud, and a manual 430.
     
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  13. jordanfsl

    jordanfsl Karting

    Dec 11, 2010
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    We need a full accounting of your collection - simply astonishing. Multiple Pista's as I recall as well?
     
  14. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
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    #36 Avia11, Feb 5, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
    IMO the Speciale reigns supreme. I can't explain it. Perhaps it's the sound of the engine, the smell of the Alcantara, the heaviness of the steering wheel, the feel of the vibrations as the RPM needle rises past 8500, and the reflection of the last Ferrari NAV8 in the rear Lexan glass. It's all of those things, but greater than the sum of its parts. I picked mine up today after its annual service and I couldn't head back to the office. I ended up spending the day "running errands" but it was more about driving from one place to the next on backroads...but never actually stopping to run the errand. It is an incredible machine. Perhaps more than a machine. It feels like an extension of synpases in my brain. It is telepathic. It's a fighter jet for the street. I love our F12, F12 TDF, Pista Spider, and the 812 GTS, but none of them feel like the Speciale.
     
  15. buddyg

    buddyg F1 Rookie
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    You need to post a thread with full details and pics of this car. Maybe you already have in a boxer forum?
     
  16. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I think I can explain it...

    IMO it's the ultimate interpretation of analogue and digital involvements, fast enough on track to stick with almost anything recent, yet not so fast that you can't use even a bit of the performance on road to still enjoy yourself. And of course the V8 soundtrack and *that* gearbox.

    The pista, whilst an improvement almost everywhere (except for engine noise), is just too fast to be enjoyed in the real world. It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow...(not that the Speciale is slow by any means, but in this context I guess it is!).
     
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  17. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
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    mostly true... but I don't know if I'd go as far as to say that the Pista is, "...an improvement almost everywhere..." e.g. I prefer my speciale to the pista spider.
     
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  18. Bas

    Bas Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I guess I should say in number terms...more acceleration, faster gearbox, more speed, more modes, more more more....

    :)
     
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  19. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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    It's playful and rewarding isn't it. More bang for the buck than anything else, I think. So nice I bought it thrice!
     
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  20. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
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    I'd love to see the various specs on all 3. I almost bought a second speciale myself, it was a beautiful sub-500 mile, grigio ferro that was gone before I could act...
     
  21. Eilig

    Eilig F1 Rookie
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  22. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
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    I have driven a CS, Scud, and own a Pista. Have not driven Speciale but owned a 458. I love the looks of the CS but that transmission really interfered with the experience. The Scud transmission was ferocious (I'm told, best single clutch around) but I actually didn't think the sound was that great. Kind of rough and barky but not with the shriek that the 458 has. The 458 did sound amazing, like an ICBM (and I'm sure the Speciale is even better so I have nothing bad to say about the car).

    As for the Pista, while I agree that the performance is "go directly to jail" level on the street, even at less than the max, it is extremely thrilling and the control that the car offers is just stunning. It's not about blasting to 100mph on a stop lighted Rt 1 style road. It about entrance/exit ramps, downforce at speed, absolute control holding a low gear in a turn, and dancing on the throttle with finesse unlike any other turbo car I've ever driven. Haul yourself down with those magical brakes, rinse and repeat. It's enough to make you laugh out loud like a kid. Every time I think, maybe I'll trade it for "X", I drive it again and come back saying, no way! It is simply a miraculous achievement and a wonderful car (though if someone offered me a tdf for it, I wouldn't say no!) With the valves open, the Pista is plenty engaging around town.

    I think as Ferrari prices continue to escalate for all models, the Pista will represent quite a value relative to newer cars. Yes it will take a brief dip but once the inventory levels off and ends up in the keeper collections, supply will dry up, values will be buoyed, and then go up from there. Relative to the Speciale, hard to say but I think the Pista adds a lot of the F1 style aero which has a beautiful form follows function which the Speciale lacks. Many have said the Pista has some of the most beautiful lines Ferrari has ever produced and I can certainly appreciate that logic. The Speciale is more of a cosmetic package on a 458 while the Pista has some novel, trick aero that makes it unique (and you can really feel it working in the turns once you get over about 60 mph). YMMV.
     
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  23. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
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  24. Dijit

    Dijit Rookie

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    ;)
     
  25. italiafan

    italiafan F1 World Champ

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    Says the guy who hasn’t even driven a Speciale...yeah, okay.

    I won’t even bother showing you how wrong you are.
     
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  26. Enzo Belair

    Enzo Belair Formula Junior
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    Guys remember that collectability has nothing to do with drivability, its more about rarity, esthetic, desirability and overall unique positioning of the car, with a large splash of "cult favorite".

    A 1960 SWB drives nothing like the cars we are discussing above, they will all out perform a car from the 60's, I remember bidding one one 18 years ago in Pebble Beach and I didn't buy because it broke over 1mm, now they are 10 to 12mm. I remember 10 years ago I could have bought an F50 for 500K, not they are 2.8mm, prices move fast and again not due to how they drive vs. other models.

    Once collectors decide a car is collectible, price is not an issue. Five years ago Testarossa's were 30k, I saw them move to 500k with delivery miles and the move all happened over a 24 month period.

    This is aside of what you want to own, you should always buy what speaks to you outside of value IMO, unless you are only viewing your purchase as an investment.

    Over the past 20 years as I have been buying and collecting Ferraris I have seen (to name a few popular models):

    250 SWB from 600K to 12mm
    250 Series II cab 200K to 2.5mm
    Cal spider from 800K to 15mm
    GTO from 25mm to 60mm
    F40 from 400K to 1.8mm
    GTE from 40K to 700k
    275 GTB from 700K to 3.5mm
    206 Dino 80K to 1mm
    Boxers 90K to 550K

    Doubling+- over the past 4 years alone (to name a few popular models):

    Testarossa
    308 GTB
    348
    CS? (was not watching the market)

    Again this post is not about what you like and own, its just a reflection of how the market might work as it relates to just value IMO.
     
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  27. Enzo Belair

    Enzo Belair Formula Junior
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    Oh Buddy, if you ask a car guy to share/speak about his car you know it will happen. I remember in some post you said "more videos" so here you go.

    The car has 9K original miles and a three year restoration:

     
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  28. johnr265

    johnr265 Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2010
    386
    Mid-Atlantic
    Just to be clear, I was not saying the Speciale is just a regular 458 with a cosmetic package. I understand dynamically and performance wise that there were many improvements and that the car is "special" because of these elements. I am enamored with the Speciale, I just don't have room for both cars. The statement you quoted was about the esthetics of the car which I perceive to be more form over function. I do not have to drive it to comment on it's looks. On the Pista for me (opinion), I appreciate both the function and form of the large cutout in the front which creates a wing and which is accentuated by the diving/disappearing stripe. I likely appreciate the way the rear deck also forms a subtle wing with the carbon cutouts arount the tailights, the suspended prancing horse, and the carbon wing underneath the car above the diffuser.
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