Cylinder Head | FerrariChat

Cylinder Head

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by upolld00, Feb 15, 2016.

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  1. upolld00

    upolld00 Rookie

    Nov 19, 2014
    26
    SF Bay Area
    #1 upolld00, Feb 15, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Got a bit of a surprise the other day when taking my car in to check the source of some oil drips on my garage floor. The shop put it on the rack and found a bit of oil seeping out of what appears to be an epoxy patch to the cylinder head. As you can imagine this was quite the surprise as this was never found during my PPI or noted in the service history of the car. The car is a '91 cab with just over 32,000 miles. Last major was done in April 2014 by the previous owner at 29,990 miles.

    I've included a picture of the patch.

    The next step is to drop the engine and take a really good look and from there determine the best course of action.

    Has anyone else had a similar issue? If so, were you able to weld the crack or did you need to replace the head?
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  2. theunissenguido

    theunissenguido F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jan 21, 2004
    2,665
    Argent/Brasil
    Full Name:
    Guido
    To me its a hole in the engine block...some drilled to much there to replace a bolt ?

    Guido
     
  3. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,261
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    Tijn
    I agree with Guido. Perhaps the stud of the camcover broke of in the past and they retapped it to deep. However I would not use epoxy for this myself, but something on locktight basis, which also prevents oil from seeping out.

    If it is the cam cover stud it should not leak anyway... the cam cover seal should not let the oil go to the stud unless the cam cover seal is broken. They often leak.

    Dropping the engine is way drastic for this IMHO. Take off the cam cover first and see what you will find.
     
  4. Alden

    Alden F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 25, 2010
    3,601
    Central Florida
    I had the aluminum timing cover from my Lotus Twin Cam engine welded due to a crack and it turned out great, but that was just a cover, not the head.

    I would consult with a very good aluminum welder and see if he can repair it without transferring too much heat to the head. Hopefully it could be done without dropping the engine.

    Also, Ferrari says they use special "secret" alloys for the heads/engine, not sure how that would influence the decision or the need to find someone who knows how to weld "secret" alloys. :)

    Where on the head is it located? Hard to tell from the pic.

    I was told that it is a good idea to disconnect anything electronic before welding around the engine too.

    More knowledgeable folks will chime in for sure too.
    Alden

    Edit: I see you are planning to drop the engine anyway so that would make it easier.
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,089
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    I suspect someone drilled through it trying to redrill the oil drain holes. Either that or it was a valve cover stud repair gone wrong.

    Fix will be very simple. No need to make an government aerospace job out of it. If someone tries to do that you are at the wrong place.
     
  6. bartzagato

    bartzagato Formula Junior

    Aug 7, 2010
    614
    Belgium
    Full Name:
    Bart
    Correct!
    They even weld cracks on cylinder heads between 2 valve openings.
    No big deal for the right guy.
     
  7. upolld00

    upolld00 Rookie

    Nov 19, 2014
    26
    SF Bay Area
    Thanks everyone for your thoughts. The car isn't due for a major so if at all possible I'd like to avoid dropping the engine unless it's a must.

    Next step is to take it to another shop for a second opinion.
     
  8. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
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    David Rapalyea alias
    How much oil did you say was dripping? It apparently is not under much pressure. There is a jerry rig solution. Simply clean the hell out of the area and do a proper JB Weld patch. Several layers over time with larger and larger base diameter. This seems to be a simple leak. I would be reluctant to get in there with a welding rig melting and vaporizing good material unless a patch does not work. And if it is simply dripping so what?

    I had a bad oil cooler leak on my 1986 3.2 and would add a quart every 500 miles till I rounded up one for less then the $2000 price for a new one. I have had cars that USED more then that! [1974 Vega station wagon fully autocross prepped but after 80,000 miles I would wait for the oil light to come on in a hard right turn and add three quarts. Worked every time! ;)

    Most of my oil leaks seem to be under control now. I know it does some leaking, but after many thousands of miles driving vigorously the oil stick still shows full. After an especially hot run, many of which I have been doing lately in preparation for the 1/2 mile drag race I plan to attend, I do get a pleasant oil smell. Smells like RACING!
     
  9. upolld00

    upolld00 Rookie

    Nov 19, 2014
    26
    SF Bay Area
    It's a very very small amount. I placed a paper towel underneath and I'm only seeing a couple of drips every week or so. The concern is that the existing epoxy patch that was put in at some point has started to fail which is why the drips are showing up.

    As you and others suggest a well done weld my solve the problem.
     
  10. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
    4,261
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    Tijn
    Do you see a crack? It's difficult to see in the picture as it looks fine from the outside.
     
  11. Rapalyea

    Rapalyea Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2013
    1,511
    Georgia Mountains US
    Full Name:
    David Rapalyea alias
    A badly done weld could introduce a very serious problem. With something this small I would do chewing gum before unleashing 90(?) amp metal vaporizor on the thing. This is not what I would call [in my daily driver world] an actual problem at all.
     

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