Cylinder liner for 308 QV | FerrariChat
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Cylinder liner for 308 QV

Discussion in '308/328' started by pshoejberg, Jun 5, 2023.

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  1. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula 3
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    #1 pshoejberg, Jun 5, 2023
    Question for the 308 experts. Does a standard 308 GTB / GTS cast iron liner fit into the 308 QV engine block? I’m considering to install high CR performance pistons in my QV and will prefer to install new 82 mm liners. Looking at various fabricators stock options it appears to be “easy” to get cast iron liners for the standard 308 car but not so for the QV. Machining the existing aluminium liners and replating seems expensive and the quality kind a questionable based on my research. Any help, comments or input much appreciated.

    best, Peter
     
  2. smg2

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    #2 smg2, Jun 5, 2023
    I do not believe so, register dia is different. So not interchangeable.
     
  3. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #3 mk e, Jun 5, 2023
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2023
    But for sure you can make iron liners that do fit a qv block. Just measure what you have and Daytona will make you an iron version. You can also open up the spigot and go up to 89mm bore. You could install 348/355/360 85mm liners. Lots of options
     
  4. smg2

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    #4 smg2, Jun 5, 2023
    For sure, just replying to "swap and drop". The register is larger in the QV than the 2V so yeah, new custom liners are required.

    Currently putting together another 89mm bore QV.

    Personally good AL/Nikasil liners are better then cast iron.
     
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  5. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    #5 tbakowsky, Jun 5, 2023
    I thought Nikasil was out lawed due to environmental concerns? Or was it something else..
     
  6. pshoejberg

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    #6 pshoejberg, Jun 6, 2023
    Thanks to all for feedback. For info I'm converting my QV engine to full EFI configuration, and my main goal is not to make a high power increase but rather a more balanced increase based on a higher compression ratio and possibly a slight modification of the intake cams. The masterplan is to make all the engine re-configurations reversible. The existing Nikasil liners are borderline worn and I don't think it makes good sense to install new pistons in old liners. Also, I would need to hone the Nikasil plating to help the piston rings to wear in and I believe this will take the last life out of the liners. What about comparability between the 328 GTB/GTS and the 308 QV - is it possible to install liners from a 328 into the QV block without having to machine the block or modify the liners?


    Best, Peter
     
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  7. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #7 mk e, Jun 6, 2023
    I'd have to go out to the shop and check the manual to be certain but I'm pretty sure the answer is no and you'd need to take 2mm out of the block

    There are (or at least were) places that will recondition the liners for you. I had a set done years ago and the only issue was they couldn't do the taper, so I had then finished at the midpoint ID but they ran fine. At the time it was like..$80/liner but that was 20 years ago.

    On the EFI path, that alone will give you a 20+hp bump if you are removing the CIS stuff that restricts the air flow. The factory cams are extremely mild to make the CIS work right so once that is gone you can add 10-20 degrees or duration and have a really nice running engine...but it will pull harder mostly on top so that might not be what you're after. To help the bottom end compression helps some but displacement like you're asking about is a 1;1 bump...10% bigger, 10% more torque kind of thing so 360 crank and liners and off you go with 20% more torque :)
     
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  8. jdjagguy

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    #8 jdjagguy, Jun 6, 2023
    I used Millennium Technologies to overbore and put new nikkosil on my original liners. There have been no problem whatsoever.
     
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  9. 85QVEuro

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    #9 85QVEuro, Jun 6, 2023
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  10. 350HPMondial

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    #10 350HPMondial, Aug 28, 2023
    Thanks jdjagguy, 85qveuro and smg2,
    ( and others in this thread.)

    I’ve been wondering what to do with my set of 308 qv Nikasil liners. I did want to install them into my 1982 308 gtsi block. ( thanks for the heads up.) Now I know they won’t fit.

    ok, so see NEXT Questions, For All,
    I want to put my 8, 81 mm, Standard Ferrari Mahle 308 qv pistons into my 1982, 308 ( 81mm ) standard bore Iron Liner block.
    ( I want to lower the compression for a future blower set-up.)

    1-What are the best piston Rings for this set up,?

    2-Where is the best place to purchase New Piston Rings, ,,?
    ( For the fitting of “said,” 308 qv pistons into standard 308 GTSi Ferrari Steel Liners. ?)

    Thanks Ferrari friends,
    Edwardo
    1982 Mondial 8 euro
     
  11. 350HPMondial

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    #11 350HPMondial, Aug 28, 2023
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  12. 350HPMondial

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    #12 350HPMondial, Aug 28, 2023
  13. pshoejberg

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    #13 pshoejberg, Sep 13, 2023
    Anyone that has a machine drawing of a standard 308qv aluminium/ Nikasil liner?

    Best, Peter
     
  14. 350HPMondial

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    #14 350HPMondial, Sep 13, 2023
  15. ferrariowner

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    #15 ferrariowner, Sep 13, 2023
    Millennium can make new cylinders for you if you want aluminum cylinders. If you are willing to go with steel or cast iron, there are a number of sources. I prefer aluminum with the nikasil coating.
     
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  16. pshoejberg

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    #16 pshoejberg, Sep 13, 2023
    Thanks Edwardo. That drawing you show is a wear check drawing and unfortunately not good enough for my purpose. I'm communicating with a liner fabrikant on the European side of the pond and they believe that the 308QV liner is the same dimensions as the 308, 16 valve liner. My impression is that the aluminum liner differs slightly dimensional from the cast iron 16 valve liner. My QV engine is not taken apart yet so I hoped someone had a machine drawing of the alu liner. Nikasil is nice but not easily available nearby me and the cost for custom made Nikasil liners or even repair of the original Ferrari liner is over the roof.

    Best, Peter
     
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  17. bill308

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    #17 bill308, Sep 14, 2023
    I used 328 (83 mm ID) Nikasil liners for my 3.4 L build, but my engine builder had to machine the 308 block to accept them. Bill
     
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  18. 350HPMondial

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    #18 350HPMondial, Sep 20, 2023
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    I just measured one of my QV liners.
    I am getting 86.97 mm, on the lower portion of the liner.
    What dimension, on this drawing of the QV liner. (early QV) Is considered “ The Register…?”
    Corresponding to where machining on the block is needed?

    thanks Ferrari friends,
    Edwardo
    1982 euro Mondial 8
    1983 euro 308 QV pistons, MAHLE with 3 rings.
     
  19. 350HPMondial

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    #19 350HPMondial, Sep 27, 2023
  20. 350HPMondial

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    #20 350HPMondial, Sep 27, 2023
  21. pshoejberg

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    #21 pshoejberg, Sep 27, 2023
    Thanks Edwardo! Do you know the the origin of that drawing? The units are in inches and would originally be in metric units.

    Best, Peter
     
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  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #22 Rifledriver, Sep 27, 2023
    Its an engineering drawing from someone making liners. Only reason to have some of those specs.
     
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  23. 350HPMondial

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    #23 350HPMondial, Sep 28, 2023
    Peter,,

    L A Sleeve
    Santa Fe Springs, CA
    Drawn by Daniel Metchkoff

    Good Luck,
    Edwardo
     
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  24. 350HPMondial

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    #24 350HPMondial, Sep 28, 2023
    Peter and All Ferrari friends,

    I’m in the process of pulling liners from a 1981 euro 308 motor. This print might be a transition liner from 308 GTSi to QV. All I remember, from a Long Time Ago (6/2011), is that the sample liner used in this drawing, was a damaged 81 mm Nikisil.

    to be continued,
    Edwardo
    1981 euro Mondial 8

    Updates to follow.
     

    Attached Files:

  25. bill308

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    #25 bill308, Sep 28, 2023
    The 3.424 would be the register that needs to be accommodated by the block and what kind of a fit is it?
    Anyone know what this dimension is for the 328 (83 mm bore) and the 348, 355, 360 family (85 mm bore)?
     
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