D-I-Yers: What cars are good cars to learn on?

Started on my mother's old Ford Escort then bought a Triumph and went from there.

 

An old Fiat and two Alfa Romeos, and a BMW 2000CS. That's why I feel good with Webers and distributors...
To me, a perfect training car for a transverse V-8 Ferrari with belts and carbs would be a Lancia Beta coupe or Scorpion:
Transverse engine, timing belt dohc, Webers and dodgy electrics.
best
rt

 

LOL!
OK, so I found a couple of beat ones on ebay, but how much would parts cost? I could only imagine trying to find parts for your $600 Lancia learner car!

 

Not too bad for price or availability as all the motor parts are basically Fiat - good specialist support through the Fiat community on-line, e.g. International Autoparts.
To me a Fiat 124 or Beta Coupe would be inexpensive, usable and fun...not much resale value, though....or a Scorpion for the masochist mechanics in training. After that a 308 would be easy.

 

I had a series of cheap cars when I was younger -- I HAD to learn how to keep them running. I had everything from 50s cars with drum brakes to Fiats.

A Fiat X1/9 would be a good starter car. Honestly, though, there's nothing complicated about the 308-328 series, except for the motor. Even it isn't too complicated, just pricey if you screw up

As an aside, you might want to check your local community colleges for automotive classes

 

It's tough to beat a second generation Firebird or Camaro to learn on. Cheap to buy, parts are plentiful, no computer controls, and plenty of room around the engine to work. As a bonus they look quite good.

I'll admit they don't compare to a Ferrari or other Italian car, but it certainly isn't any fun scrounging for unobtainable parts when you could actually be accomplishing and learning something. Start simple, learn the basics, and then get something more complex when you feel comfortable.

 

learned on Mini Cooper (1960s), MGB and Lotus Europa. Very basic and break down a lot - always something to work on. MGBs - parts, old and aftermarket, extremely plentiful and won't put you in the poor house.

 

MGB
My neighbor took me out in it and taught me how to drive a standard. about age 11.

 

Or a pickup truck. NOW you're talking about room to work with around the engine, and you've got alot more room under the truck too. If you're going so far as to pull motors and trannys, its far easier to do in a truck than any car. Just my .02

 

An MGB is a great car to learn on you will definately learn about electrical shorts. I started out working on american cars muscle cars mostly and when I switched over to the european cars I found them to be quite diffrent so keep that in mind.

 

I started on my dream car a gt4
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I imported a 1989 Mustang 5.0 to Sydney when I lived there and turned it in to a road rally car - replaced everything from the air filter to the intake manifold, put on roller rockers, changed all of the exhaust from the exhaust ports back, installed a big brake kit all the way 'round, updated the suspension front and rear and a bunch of other stuff. Only thing I didn't do myself was the exhaust welding and the roll cage fabrication.

So on my 348 I'm pretty facile with the EFI system since it is similar technology to the Mustang, just double in many of the sensors. I don't work on the 348 myself only because I don't have the infrastructure, but I can read the manual and narrow stuff down to a few possiblities especially with regards to the electrical bits that run the whole fuel delivery/mass air metering/O2 sensing business.

Cheers
Kevin

 

Two of the Ferrari F1 mechanics I know were working on F355 challenge cars for Italian dealers before they moved up to the team. One of them, Ferraris were all he's ever worked on. No reason to start at the bottom...

 

It depends on what sort of car you plan to buy or work on?

They're very different disciplines, so go with the one you're more likely to need.

 

ANYTHING mechanical-from a Schwinn to an EMD-16-645. What's that, you say? Modern GM locomotive engine-V-16, 710 cubic inches PER CYLINDER, turbo-charged 900RPM redline making an easy 4,000 horsepower! Actually began with '68 Mustang 289-totally easy to work on, then Porsche 914, Mustang SVO (turbo), Cosworth BDA's--they are the best. Belt-driven double-overhead cams, 4-valve heads, dry-sumps, all based on a Pinto block! Oh, and read alot of car books like the series by Carroll Smith about Preparing to Win, Tuning to Win, etc. They save you the need to do a lot of trial and error stuff-they have already been there and done that.

 

If your looking for something to learn on and drive, the good ol' VW beatle is the way to go. I helped a friend of mine pull the engine out of his when we were in high school. Four bolts and it was out. The parts for bugs are super cheap, and you can find loads of stuff for them. I never had any formal training, I just learned by watching. Just after I got out of high school I had a job at a gas station, back in the days when they still had full serve islands. That is were I really learned alot. I never did big time mechanic stuff just little things to help the mechanics there. Most of what I learned was just standing around playing the doctors assitant. Rachet.....rachet, extention.....extention, 1/4" wrench....1/4" wrench. LOL!!! That and I had some friend that raced cars. The hardest part of working on a car is figuring out what is wrong. After your have that taken care of the rest is pretty easy. Unbolt this, unscrew that, unplug here, take out the part, new part in, and then the reverse. Just start with something small, like replacing the cooling hoses, then move up to the radiator, etc. Hey if you mess it up, just take it to the mechanic like you would have in the first place.

 

Fiat or Lancia dohc - great training ground, plenty of parts available (check out Bayless or International Auto for parts) plus very similar engine design. After working on a Lancia Beta or Scorpion you wouldn't believe the amount of room there is to work around a Ferrari engine.'

 

Ditto there. I bought mine in 2001 with zero car experience but a willingness to learn. Today I have a good basic grounding in DHOC emgines, carbs, brakes, electrical systems, cooling systems and body work. I'm to the point where I have the confidence to fix anything on the car myself. Plus you get an inexpensive, wildly fun car that won't cost an arm and a leg to maintain. It's even reliable once you get the thing sorted out. I drive mine almost daily.

While a carb Ferrari is more complex, it's still just a car.
Ken

 

I agree, the air-cooled VW (any Type) is the EASIEST engine to drop, fix and install. Parts are inexpensive, can be found around the globe, and I've seen more 12 second and under STREET DRIVEN dubs than I can shake a connecting rod at.

 

this thread gets my vote for being one of the top threads on FCHAT. Excellent topic to discuss, highly informative and nothing but positive. My opinion is very similar to the others here: learn on the Fiat or Lancia series cars, especially the mid engines, those cars will teach you to learn the trick of removing tires to gain access thru the wheel wells. I learned that one on my X1/9 and perfected completely with the 308 series. IMO, the 308 series is a true mechanics car. Everything on the 308 engine is easy to work on IMO with enough patience. You also learn to appreciate the fine engineering thought for the mechanic that Ferrari gives that FIAT does not. I was not impressed at all with the head design on FIATs, nonetheless a great starter car to learn.

 

Interesting. I read a lot about the poor engineering decisions (not the head but just in general) of 308's by those who know; if Fiat is worse, then that's a scary thought!

Ken

 

I know what you mean, but from a mechanic's standpoint of ease of access to the engine and ancillary components, the 308 rocks. Engineering design of the water pump is obviously lacking if you are talking about the original small bearing design without retrofitting to the larger bearing QV water pump housing and the associated superior water pump shaft seal. The poor clutch design that I keep hearing about is a nonissue with mine, 73,400 original miles with the original clutch still. I am also on my 4th water pump and I expect around 45K out of the 4th pump that I had just installed 1300 miles ago. My FIAT that I had for 5 years got me thru college, but with 2 blown head gaskets later and had to replace the coolant expansion tank 3 times due to melting(OEM is a steel tank) plastic tank. I wasn't impressed at all with the X1/9 cooling system at all. Lack of power due to a SOHC 1300cc engine stunk. But the X1/9 trained me in how to adjust the valves and become comfortable with inserting and removing shims, changing the timing belt and working on the car in general. The FIAT is a cheaply made car to begin with and major mods are needed to bring it up to acceptable standards. aftermarket suppliers are essential in alleviating nagging problem areas. I don't regret owning the X1/9 as it taught me how to work on cars in general.

I can rattle off several poor engineering decisions on a multitude of cars. I.e., front wheel drive cars are an incredibly crappy decision from the standpoint of drivetrain and also front suspension longevity. They don't exist. A well engineered Nissan Maxima for example gets a maximum of 50K miles out of CV joints if you are lucky. Front wheel bearings must be regreased or changed at a max of 50K. Front end alignment issues are constant with FWD. Upper and lower A arms must be closely examined also and they do not last longer than 50K. A properly driven Fcar can easily get 100K out of a suspension. To accomodate a FWD engine design, engine length becomes a major concern, so this means that you cannot have a water pump that runs EXTERNAL to the engine, but INTERNAL. There are several Honda and Nissan cars that integrate the frigging water pump with the MAIN timing chain (or rubber timing belt on Hondas). I hope one doesn't experience a water pump seizing on those cars or you can kiss your engine goodbye unless if it isn't an interference engine. Wishful thinking, because most of them are interference engines.

 

I started with British cars (buy a British car to drive and you learn to be a mechanical as part of the deal!), but have extensive experience with everything _except_ Italian cars. So the things I'm not familiar with involve the cam belts, the way the valves, adjust and such... having an X1/9 or similar would have been good experience before jumping into working on a 308.

So far, I've found a carbed 308 a joy to work on. More difficult than most of my British cars or my Swedish cars, but easier than most of my Audis... and about average compared to the BMW's I've owned.

One further thing... I've found that while marque and model specific experience gives you a good grasp on how things are done on a specific car, but that general experience gives you the knowledge to safely handle problems as they arise (and they invariably do). As an example, not a lot in the workshop manual on what to do with a busted stud or a stripped hole. I've found this latter experience is what sets the pros apart from us backyard types.

No need to start at the bottom? Guys that work in new car dealerships on primarily new cars or work for a factory racing effort may be very good at what they do, but I'll bet they would be just as confused by working on a vintage car as the rest of us... completely different situations you face. (I have a buddy who is a Honda tech and is one of the worst backyard mechanics I've ever seen...)

Bill