D Type Auto Union | FerrariChat

D Type Auto Union

Discussion in 'Porsche' started by James_Woods, Nov 4, 2008.

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  1. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    At the risk of being way off topic for this section or a repost (I claim a Porsche design linkage) - I was absolutely knocked out by the HDTV presentation that came on last night showing the D-type 1939 Auto Union.

    They showed it first in NYC, (and Jim G. was looking at it and took of his shoes to actually climb aboard) -

    Then, it was taken to Paris for the auction; but at the last minute it was withdrawn. Estimates went about $15M as the value - if it had gone to auction.

    Does anybody know what ever happened with this car, and what the rumors were (other than it not being the "right" chassis number for the French G.P. winner)? Was it possible that the sellers were afraid it might not bring a strong set of bids and withdrew it for later?

    BTW, Does it run? I had heard rumours of an earlier model (the V16 version) that was display only as the engine was missing a good deal of the innards.

    Anyway, it was beautiful and I have always been fascinated by this car (and for some reason like it much more than the Mercedes Benz racers of the same era).
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Yes it was fully functional. The issues were that the chassis # was not as first claimed and therefore it was perhaps more of a bitsa than originally thought. It was Christies that pulled the Auction.

    Doug Nye knows the details of what it was and what it wasn't.

    It's not a car for the faint of heart.
     
  3. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    Thank you.

    And I somehow suspect you mean "not for the faint of heart" in as much a mechanical and operational sense as financial!

    BTW - I have heard multiple stories about the design legacy: Did Porsche really have something to do with it, or is that just another Porsche urban legend (like the Tiger Tank)? Somehow I want it to be a Porsche design out of loyalty.
     
  4. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Yes Mechanically/Operationally. Not sure about the good Doctor. Very cool car but not one to go touring in.
     
  5. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    If, of course, you can believe Wiki...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto_Union

    Just as a matter of interest, I think I have a book at home on these cars that claims the smaller displacement V12 version was first taken to the track with a dummy set of 2 extra exhaust pipes on each side to fool Mercedes Benz into thinking that it was still a V-16...I am going to look that up tonight.

    I think also that either the V-12 or the V-16 (or perhaps both) had an unusual cam arrangement where one central camshaft worked the intakes, while 2 others worked the exhaust valves? Or was that the other way around?

    I obviously need to get busy and do some research...
     
  6. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
    Honorary Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 5, 2001
    6,554
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    William Maxwell Hart
    This car was (is?) owned by Abba Kogan?
     
  7. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    OK, I found my article last night on the type D after a long search. (Did anybody else notice that there was nothing interesting on TV?) The article by Jonathan Thompson is in an old vintage copy of Road & Track - October 1966.

    First, although Dr. Porsche did indeed initiate the mid-engine design of the earlier cars, he had apparantly left Auto Union by the time development of the 1938/1939 type D was done. The lead engineer was Dr. Eberan von Eberhorst.

    Second, this car almost never came about. AU's first driver, Bernd Rosemeyer had been killed in January 1938 in an attempt to regain an International land speed record from Mercedes Benz when his streamliner left the autobahn at 275mph. Herman Muller remained the only hope for a first line driver, but was considered very inexperienced. Their other two drivers were experienced but very slow. One of the AU directors saved the project by approaching the great Tazio Nuvolari who had already driven a 6 litre AU in the 1937 Swiss GP.

    Wiki may not have made this entirely clear, but the type D had much better handling than the early cars. The dangerous swing axle IRS had been replaced by a DeDion link, along with other suspension modifications which made the car an understeering type rather than the vicious oversteer of the V16s. Also, the driver's seat had been moved back to about midpoint rather than the extreme forward position from earlier years. The fuel tanks had to be moved rearward into the side sponsons to accomplish this, and were increased in size to 72 gallons to accomodate the demands of 3 mpg from the new engine. Bogus information on the engine was deliberately leaked to hint that it was a smaller version of the old V-16, (not a new V12) and indeed it appeared with the false exhaust stacks during testing at Monza to further enhance the illusion.

    The engine was a V12 design of 3 litres. The camshaft arrangement was indeed unusual - a single cam between the cylinder banks to operate the intake valves, and two cams on each head to operate the exhaust valves on their side. Initial power was 420 bhp with a single stage supercharger for 1938. The later 2-stage supercharged cars of 1939 were rated continuously at 485 bhp, with some engines showing 500 bhp on the dyno.

    This was the cause of the retirement of Nuvolari at the French GP of 1939 - his powerful engine blew up after he led for eight screaming laps. This left Muller to finish first and teammate Meier in second in an older single stage car. Only Muller and Nuvolari had the special two-stage cars, which were prepared specially for the French GP. A vintage photo (attributed to Kurt Worner) purports to show Muller in a two-stage car in the French GP bearing the number 12 - so this would have been supposedly the car we are discussing in the Christies auction. A line drawing of the Nuvolari car at the following German GP shows the number 2.

    The two-stage type D cars were only used in four races - the French, the German GP, the Swiss GP, and the Belgrade GP in 1939. Their last public appearance was September 3, 1939 in the Belgrade Yugoslavia race - and of course WW2 started almost simultaneously. Author Thompson wrote in this 1966 article that it was thought that no 3-litre cars had survived the war years, although Audi had an earlier 6 litre type C (or at least enough of one to display as a museum piece). Of course, now the debate continues on this found car in question - my article does not indicate if there were ever more than two of the two-stage cars made.

    Thompson also opines that these cars were not really overmatched by the Mercedes W163 as badly as history might seem - he notes that the V12 actually made more power than the Benz and the car was lighter. Thompson says that what AU mostly lacked was the precise team organization of Mercedes and the availability of high quality secondary team drivers other than Muller and Nuvolari. Author Ken Purdy further adds that the German government actually gave BOTH AU and Mercedes the famous 500,000 mark stipend as not even the hyper-nationalistic 3rd Reich really wanted to see just the Mercedes cars circulating at their own speed without competition. This money was also supplemented by generous arms-related contracts to both companies.

    I thought that it was kind of nostalgically appropriate that Nuvolari ended the Auto Union race legend with a win in the Belgrade GP. Love this great car,

    James
     
  8. vunico

    vunico Formula Junior

    Feb 20, 2007
    384
    southern florida
    truly one of the most amazing cars ever built...i never tire of looking at it...great show on a great channel
     
  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Very Cool!
     
  10. pastmaster

    pastmaster Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    890
    Alma, Michigan USA
  11. pastmaster

    pastmaster Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    890
    Alma, Michigan USA

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