Damaged spring mount supports | FerrariChat

Damaged spring mount supports

Discussion in '348/355' started by bobzdar, Mar 28, 2013.

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  1. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    #1 bobzdar, Mar 28, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have a Sept. '94 build '95 with the early style spring supports (similar to 348?) and while doing a thorough inspection to get it ready for the track on Monday, I found that the springs mount supports are starting to give out. It looks like the challenge cars have upgraded supports and they changed the support on later cars (post sn 104xxx), has anybody dealt with this on a 348 or earlier 355?

    My plan is to weld the supports completely to the mount pad and further add a reinforcement plate from the pad to the support to ensure they can't pull farther apart. It looks like the support is just spot welded to the shock pad and not welded at all at the seam. I would go for the challenge supports but at $700 for just one side for some crappy stamped steel, it's not worth it and the other side is nla.

    Anybody see the other minor problem I found?
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  2. plugzit

    plugzit F1 Veteran
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    Dec 1, 2004
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    Bruce Bogart
    Wow. Thanks for the report. I'll check mine. With 75k miles on mine, I think it's time!
     
  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,741
    This is a known weak area. There is a kit to fi/support it proper (from challenge cars.)
     
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    I am not convinced this is a problem for streetcars. The 348 is a flexy Flyer in its entire chassis. The 360s aluminum chassis really was a quantum leap. When I welded my rollcage to the top of the front shock mounts that really changed the front stiffness. The challenge plates marginally improved this area.
     
  5. pnicholasen

    pnicholasen Formula 3

    Jan 14, 2011
    1,364
    South of Philly
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    Paul Nicholasen
    Anybody know if strut tower braces would make any difference to the stiffness of the chassis?
     
  6. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Mine is a street car and has not seen a track since at least before 2004 (don't know the history before then). The mounts are cracking pretty badly, car has 47k miles. The challenge plates looked like a marginally different shock support with an added plate accross the front to prevent the top from deforming (which is what is happening on mine). I for sure don't dare go to the track in it's current state and would be wary of hitting any big bumps on the street.

    Does anybody have a picture of the challenge supports? I'm going to have it repaired tonight so would like to see them for comparison.
     
  7. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    #7 fatbillybob, Mar 30, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Are you running more spring than stock? Remember that metal subject to repeat bending stress work hardens and cracks. So who ever repairs the area needs to do more than weld it but reinforce it and stress relieve it.

    Depending on the area of cracking the OEM 355C reinforcing plate may not be enough for you. This plate was never for the 348 which ran even in 1994 pretty soft springs. It was the 355C that ran really hard springs like 1500lb/in and most likely why the extra plate as you see below from the 355C manual. The 1994 348C manual does not show this part but some may have put those plates on their 348's.
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  8. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Yes, it has H&R progressive springs which for sure could be a contributing factor.

    The cracking is right at the spot welds where the spring support meets the spring pad, about where you can see the horizontal part of the spring support bending down.

    The nature of it seems to be that the spring support is just spot welded to the pad which allows the edges to pull down as the farthest out spot weld is about a half inch in from the vertical portion of the support. This means there's about half an inch unsupported on the horizontal part so it droops down and starts to crack at the spot weld and lets the spring pad start to push into the trunk.

    What we did (after spending 2-3 hours scraping seam sealer out of the area) was to get everything straightened out and back in place and then weld a bead straight down the outer side of the spring pad to the top of the spring support. This essentially gets rid of the bending moment on the spring support so that it is only in shear. For it to deform now, it will have to bend the whole spring pad and not just the thin support. That may very will happen as none of that metal is very thick, but we'll see how it holds up monday at the track. I'll run the first half of the day on street tires and then switch to R6's if everything holds up and looks good. If it starts to crack again, the plan is to take it into the shop over the winter and remove the front suspension and stuff in the trunk and rebuild the shock supports with thicker metal. The factory stuff is super thin.

    A shock tower brace would help for sure, problem is installing one as the whole HVAC unit gets in the way. It'd be tough to properly triangulate it and you'd have to move the ABS computer and relays that sit right over the shock on the passenger side and work around the master cylinder on the driver side.

    I apparently put something back together wrong (or accidentally unplugged something) on the top side as my ABS light is on now, but I'll spend tomorow messing with it and not really a big deal as I'm used to tracking without ABS anyway. Hopefully I didn't fry the ABS computer.
     
  9. greybeast

    greybeast Formula Junior

    Nov 15, 2011
    254
    Long Island
    Not really clear from the photo, but is there a crack in your steering rack boot?
     
  10. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Both sides as it turns out :)
     
  11. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    Both sides as it turns out :)
     
  12. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 10, 2002
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    At one time I looked into beefing up this area. The only way I could do it was with a cage which is not an option for you. I ran into the same thinking that you would want to triangulate right where the A/C unit is. I started tracking with a bolt in 348C cage. The car still flexed you could feel it. Then a quantum leap in stiffness came when i welded in my cage. Later I added bars through the firewall up into the shock towers and that made a huge difference. I know now why people make tube frame cars. No matter what you do to stiffen a car like a 348/355 all you do is transfer the flex to another zone. I'm certain if I had not crashed that car I would have at least semi-tube framed it.

    PS steering rack on the right coast look up atlantic enterprises they are the best.
     
  13. bobzdar

    bobzdar F1 Veteran

    Sep 22, 2008
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    #13 bobzdar, Apr 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The fix held up for the track day, we'll see how well it holds up through the summer. Pic is after about 25 laps, no signs of deformation or cracking.
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