Well, had the thermo replaced (after doing the rad myself, I let some else do the easy job). Anyway, seems that my temo gauge is the culprit. Using multiple readings with a Snap-On digital temp reader from the engine, the therm housing, the rad, the fill tank my gauge is about 20 degrees off. The bad part is that, since it can go the all the way up to 250, I won't know if it ever really IS overheating (too bad the gauge doesn't go to 260). I had a slight hint that the gauge could be the problem because the car never boiled over the few times it got super hot temp reading, which I am told it would likely do if run up to 250 degrees. Also, my oil temp never got above the 200-ish, even when the temp gauge was pegged. So that's that hopefully. Thanks everybody...
PenP, Did you use an IR temp meter to take your temperature readings? Were the targets shinny aluminum? Bill
My mechanic used an IR temp meter - pointed at the radiator (black) and the therm housing (dull aluminum). I bought one myself - $80. After the changes I made - installing a rad that had been re-cored and a new thermostat, my car is now running very normal. As I already wrote, the rad made no difference and the temp gauge IS definately reading incorrectly as hotter than reality, but the car now runs freakishly normal - doesn't peg up at all in traffic. My conclusion is that my old thermo was bad and the temp gauge problem is just coincidental. I also did a couple things that theoretically shouldn't make a difference when overheating is limited only to stop and go traffic and that was to seal the edges of the radiator and to plumb the oil cooler hose from the bodyside vent opening (which was gone). So I went from a car pegging the temp gauge at 250 when running in bad traffic to a car that won't overheat no matter what!!!
Do what I did, I installed a togle switch inside the car just in case the relay or the thermo fan switch does'nt work you can always turn your rad. fan on anytime but remember I only use this as a back up only when necessary. Simple and yet safe. Mike
Pen, well done. Wish I had that kind of result. My 308 consistently overheats in stop-and-go (open highway is never a problem, so it's definitely an air-flow issue). Over the last several weeks, the thermostat has been replaced, radiator flushed and replaced, cam timing adjusted (one bank was off), water-pump checked, foam under the hood replaced, two new 12inch rad fans installed, fuse box upgraded, coolant replaced and system repeatedly bled and, finally, two smaller additional fans installed, one in each front wheel well (neat little trick developed (I should probably say "trademarked") by my mechanic) to dissipate excess heat from the radiator area, and the car STILL goes just north of the three-quarters mark on the temp gauge!!! It's killing me... we just can't figure it out so far. At least I've got an honest and creative mechanic helping me through this... Still enormously frustrating. Weird how some cars run just fine, others completely different. Guess that's what happens when your cars are partially hand-built and Italian.
[QUOTE Weird how some cars run just fine, others completely different. Guess that's what happens when your cars are partially hand-built and Italian.[/QUOTE] After seeing my water temp peg all the way after a fair amount of work (but not as much as you did), I thought I'd be in your boat; I guess I got lucky. Also, has your mechanic checked the actual rad temp with an infrared temp gauge? (they're so cool , I bought one!) As I said in my post, my temp gauge was off by 20 degrees! One clue was that my car never boiled over despite hitting 250 degrees. Is your car boling over? There still seems to be one big thing that you haven't done which is to re-core the radiator. I read on the site that "rodding" is just not enough once a radiator goes bad, but I don't know. If all you did was flush the rad, that's not enough, a clogged radiator can fool a "flush". So at least you haven't done EVERYTHING like a couple of 308 owners have done. Also, those scary photos above of corrosion in the engine block are another thing to look for.
My fans don't seem to move enough air, where did you get the bigger fans and how much do they run? Any re-design of mounting need to be done? Pat
Pat, check out this thread http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=76238&highlight=308+cooling. If you check out the first 16 or so posts especially, there are detailed instructions on the fans, the mounting and everything else you'll need to know, complete with pictures! I notice you're new on Fchat. Welcome. There are guys on here who are an incredible resource for all things Ferrari. Here's just the first paragraph from the description on post 16 of the thread I mentioned above: "Installing the two Hayden 12", 800 CFM fans (Model 3680) suggested by Mike Charness, completely solved the problem. Installation was fairly simple, requiring removal of the front grill (four screws and two bolts), bumper (four nuts and disconnect turn light wiring), horn (one bolt), and the OEM fans (unbolting and spreading open each OEM bracket.) Neither the radiator-AC condenser nor hood need to be loosened because the thin Hayden fan profile allowed the fans to slip between the condenser and OEM fan mounting brackets. " (By the way, I'm not sure whether my mechanic used Hayden fans, but mine are 12" also and look like the Haydens in the picture, so that may be it... I think they ran me about a hundred bucks. While, unlike the experience of the Fchatter above, putting in the new 12" fans by no means resolved my problem, I think it did help and it was a relatively inexpensive upgrade which is bound to be better than the original smaller fans. It does seem that for some people, it's all that's required.) Good luck, J.
Those pictures are indeed scary... Unfortunately, my car definitely boils over and spits coolant when the temp gauge reads near max, so I know it's actually overheating. I'm pretty sure (though a little less than 100%) that my mechanic did check the actual rad temp. As for the re-core/rodding, I'm a bit confused about these processes and the difference between the two (guess I should do a search and learn). But I do recall reading that rodding (or maybe it was re-core?) actually made the problem worse in some cases and could be a bad idea. Since we've tried nearly every damn possibility now (I forgot to mention in my earlier posting, but we also changed the radiator cap), the next step I've decided to take is to replace the stock radiator entirely with the $900 aluminum one from Nick's Forza. As I understand it this has significantly more surface area and fits a good deal more coolant, plus it's all aluminum (i.e. shouldn't rust, right?) and much lighter... This has been an expensive gremlin to fix, but if this last step gets rid of my overheating once and for all, then it will have been worth it... If not, I'm just going to lose my mind, I think.
Thank you for the information on the fans. My car is the one on the thread "need help with a 308 overheating problem". After rotting the radiator twice and replacing the thermo, the car was still overheating and losing coolant out of the expansion tank. So I went looking for a new core as advised by answers to my request for help. I replaced the steel core with a copper core so I could still have the Ferrari tanks. This helped a little. Everything else has been checked or replaced (new foam, thermo, water pump, hoses,block checked and flushed two times. The car has been scoped, fuel mixture adjusted, timing ok. OE fans are coming on at 180 and have the correct amps, and voltage. After driving I put a high speed fan in front of the car and leave the car running and I can watch the temp guage go down to 180. I have a new temp guage and sender, but with my infared heat gun on the block and the radiator the guage reads 10 degress higher. I have had the car since Nov. 2005 and it came with a overheating problem and a leaking waterpump and a few oil leaks which have all been fixed. The weather at this time in So. CAlif. is in the 90's and the air is hot, so I was reading about changing to two 12" fans to get more air flowing to the radiator to keep the coolant from boiling out. Have I missed anything???????????
You still have the option of getting the stock radiator re-corred before doing the aluminum radiator change. Do a search for the aluminum radiator issue (search: Nick's aluminum radiator, that should get it). As with many issues, some people argue - strongly - that the aluminum option is actually not good, while others disagree (argument relates to cooling effectiveness). In these posts, it is also detailed the modifications required by the new alum radiator. My 365GT was having overheating problems and having the radiator recorred makes it run almost too cool. That positive experience is what made me (needlessly) first focus on my radiator on the 308 after a "flush". didn't help. So I swapped my radiator for one that had been recorred. BTW, rodding is an aggressive, radiator-out cleaning of the core, while recorring replaces the core, usually with a more robust core (if I'm wrong in my explanations, someone will correct me). Rodding is cheaper than recorring. Cause is the same: junk clogged in the radiator tubes impeeding flow. But while my 308's issues wound up not being radiator related, it sounds like that could be your problem (hopefully!) -- your question: repair stock or go to aluminum. Also, don't know how mechanical you are, but taking out the radiator (and putting it back in!) is not that hard (and it CAN be done without taking the front lower valence off as long as you have a skinny socket extrension or T-handle for the two bolts on the underside of the condensor. Since my car is set up to be uses as primarily a track car, I came very close to buying Nick's radiator too, but I wound up not needing it. Yet.
Like you, mainly use my car for the track and the stock radiator was doing the usual leaks/crack at the seam. Debated recore and opted for Nick's aluminum. My temps from last year with stock radiator to this year with Nicks shows a 15C lower coolant temps (from 110C to 95C during same track and virtually same ambient temps). Nick's radiator is pretty much a simple bolt and go replacement. i think the debate deals with weight loss as Nick's weights less, though holds more fluid. Hope this helps. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
If you have to keep bleeding the circuit, something is wrong. I have been through this before with a close friends 308. He recored the radiator, checked the fans, relays, fuses, thermostat, thermoswitches, waterpump and sent it to a reputable local shop outside boston. they did the same checks and found that one of the headgaskets were bleeding into the waterjacket ever so slightly as to cause air lock in the system and the car ran hot. not overheated, just too hot. he replaced the gasket and voila, the system ran normally. nice and cool all the time. its my 2cents but I wouldnt trust the gauge conclusion. Bill
