Date line 2-7-07 FNA headquarters

And if the b!tch does it again, I'm gonna kick her ass!

 

I find this thread very interesting, FNA does have a point in some respects but the contribution of others here has been amazing, some very interesting issues have been raised and I have learnt some things about Ferrari I didnt know....

 

Truly a shame. I love Ferraris, but the arrogance of the company as a whole is sickening. Time for a class-action lawsuit if you ask me. I work for a GM dealer, and we have to show a failure was caused by non-OEM pieces before we can deny anything. This mostly comes into play with D-Max trucks and aftermarket programmers, but even knowing they cause an issue doesn't mean we can deny without proof every single time.

 

i think we should all inform every press member and car enthusiast website and person about FNA. Send e-mails to press members via car magazine websites. Whine and cry all you want guys, but if you just keep it to yourself then why bother complaining at all?

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!


Same goes for CF discoloration and 355 headers, etc. Unless you guys are going to group together and actually DO SOMETHING then STFU.

My apologies for creaming, but really, i hate FNA and they could go punt off for all i care. They have lied to me, said they'd do X and never did, etc.

 

I just bought 5 gallons of that oil for P 4/5. Cost 32X more than my first car.

 

I also find this thread very interesting/enlightening, please keep feeding us information.

 

Some quick research on Magnusson-Moss, and I'll do more;

"No aftermarket part or accessory that is properly installed on your vehicle will entirely void your original vehicle manufacturers warranty"

"the installation of aftermarket parts have no effect on the warranty unless such equipment causes the problem that leads to the warranty claim"

"It is the dealership's responsibility to prove that your modification directly caused or affected the failure you are trying to resolve"

I need to research some case law on this to see what the courts say are the true parameters.

 

Absolutely this act applies to Fcars just the same as any other. The burden of proof is on the dealer / manufacturer to prove how the non-oem part caused a failure resulting in the warranty claim. But the devil is in the details...just how far would someone go to fight a $1k claim? $2k claim? For most warranty claims it probably wouldn't be worth the legal fees.

 

Ferrari never has and never will fully comply with all US rules and regulations. They are Ferrari!!! When you sell every car you can make regardless there is little incentive to do the right thing.
If you ever get really bored read the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR 49) which contains all of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.

 

That is exactly what they are counting on owners to do.

However, under most state's consumer protection and tort laws you do not have to sue Ferrari in NJ. You can sue a Ferrari dealer locally, and they would then subrogate to Ferrari NA.

Don't ever give up because you feel the amount is too small or their location in NJ is a deterrent.

CA allows one to collect his reasonable fees as well!

 

I think a vehicle that does not pass smog because of such a defect has to be fixed under the federal emission warranty, and if i am not mistaken mechanical components ( such as engine/intake/exhaust) should be covered.
If this is not happening, I do a lot of work for a warranty complience attorny, and he would love to here about this sort of stuff. I get all kinds of good info from them, to respond to the crap the dealers and manufacurer's tell some clients, But as everyone has said FNA do not give a s**t about there clients.

 

Along with that 5 gallon of Shell Helix from Pluto that Jim purchased, I still remember when Ferrari of Los Gatos charged me $38 per spark plug. I guess those Champion and/or NGK plugs must have come from Pluto as well. I called NGK and purchased the same silly plugs for $4 a piece. FLG was paying more for the plugs from FNA than anyone of us could purchase them over the counter. How nuts is that?

Before everyone gets too excited about the Magnusson-Moss Warranty Act, The Fed and State Emissions/Smog laws trump it. So, if you merrily go about modifying your ECU for example, you're screwed. I'm going to call my buddy at BAR to see if cat-back exhausts are ruled an emission item and, therefore, you're not supposed to touch it unless you purchase an aftermarket item that has been approved for use (emissions) on that car in CA.

If Ferrari sells a car in CA, it is covered by CA's 7 year emission warranty. And, every day your car is in the shop under warranty, your coverage extends day for day it is in the shop. This was an issue I ground Ferrari up on when I purchased a new 512TR back 1993 and the two years were up, or so they thought. Problem was for Ferrari was that my car sat for over three months over those two years under warranty repairs. They had to perform three engine out services to fix the silly cam seal leaks. (Brian probably remembers the design flaw that caused a part to saw through the gasket until Ferrari fixed it. Then there was the non-asbestos gasket issue mentioned earlier.) Unfortunately for Ferrari, I was only one month "out of warranty". The State of California was only too kind to ask Ferrari to fix the problem or have their collective peckers slapped. I can't remember exactly what the problem was, but I think it may have been the silly TO bearing problem that all 512TRs eventually had. You were supposed to upgrade to the 512M TO bearing. Naturally, Ferrari wanted me to pay for it. I refused and, unlike most owners, was willing to say something. Ferrari even accused me of being "cheap". I agreed with them. Then politely asked them to hurry up and fix it.

As I stated in some other thread, Ferrari screwed the F355 owners over the valve guide/header issues. That should have been covered under CA's 7 year warranty and the owners should have gone after Ferrari. If owned a F355, I would have gone after them.

Steve

 

Holy cow, wait a minute here....do you mean putting the QA1 shocks on my 308 is going to void my warrantee??

Birdman

 

LOL! This is why we buy $35k Ferrari cars long out of warrantee... we get the same response from FNA as in-warrantee claim service those $250k new car guys get

ADDED BONUS: we spent EIGHT TIMES LESS on a car and get the same high quality FNA service

 

I ran the parts dept for a Porsche dealer for a few years, and this was an issue too. It wasn't favoured to do any aftermarket work on a vehicle, as it will start voiding warranty. Not automatically, but if a part fails, and there is a non oem part installed on the vehicle that is associated to the failed part, no warranty will be given.

A very good example was we had many vehicles that came in with a failed transmissions, and one of the first things that PCNA would ask is to verify if the vehicle is chipped. If it was, no warranty!, and the customer was left holding the bill for the transmission. We as a dealer would not promote, install, or modify cars under warranty. Yes it is lost sales, but the dealer was protecting itself from claims that would be denied from PCNA (Porsche Cars North America). It is thin ice to walk on.

I am not very knowledgable of Ferrari warranty and all the problems associated with the newer cars so I do follow this thread with great interest.

 

Another side of this issue to bear in mind is that under accident conditions some insurance companies will download the blackbox info to query what the vehicle's parameters were immediately before the accident.

Apparently it can tell them considerable information to use as an affirmative defense in denying claims as well as in litigation.

I am sure manufacturers are doing the same when cars come in for warranty services.

 

I suggest that FNA familiarize itself with the Moss-Magnuson Act before they start spouting off about voiding a new car warranty just because after-market parts have been installed... that Act specifies that a warranty claim can only be denied IF they can prove an after-market part caused the failure for which warranty coverage is sought... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

 

once you lower them, you can fit them with a tassle and use them as a mop!

 

Lotus does it for sure. With the Elise the warranty is void if you over-rev the engine. Period. There are a couple of threads about it over on Elisetalk.

 

BMW is now able to get the info from one's ignition key!

When the car goes in for service they ask for your key, put it into a desktop reader, and bingo they have everything they need.

They write the service orders from that info!

I was stunned when that happened to me the first time.