David Piper 250 LM..

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by amenasce, Jan 14, 2004.

  1. writerguy

    writerguy F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2003
    Full Name:
  2. P4Racer

    P4Racer Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    Full Name:
    max wakefield
    I seem to have returned to a Malstrom of activity here. Also totally unaware, i'm called Harry.

    Thank you to those who followed my progress in my moody P4. I have two p4's, the "moody P4" which I built from various bits of racing cars, and a more original Alegretti bodied chassis made at the same time as 0900. The second car is still a long way of competing. The moody being quick enough to slay, Mclarens, GT40's Cobras, Chevrons, etc etc.... all this despite weighing over 1000kgs, with a bog standard roadgoing V12, adapted to take dry sump. more on and maybe on

    I will not make comment on Davids old car at this moment, its a car I know very well, having been the inspiration for the Mk1 Moody P4. and then the subsequent inspiraion to buy the famous P4 that hung from the roof. Its a lovely car, and im sure that Jim is very pleased with it.

    just to clarify the car from the roof, had an alegretti front end and centre section and a glass rear end. I tracked down an alegretti rear, in italy. That car is now owned by my son William, who is kind enough to let me tinker with the idea of making a full restoration.
  3. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
    Surrey, England
    Full Name:
    Wasn't David Piper's 250LM heavily crashed at the recent Macau classic race? Also Doesn't it have a glass fibre body?
  4. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
    Advising Moderator

    Jul 20, 2003
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    P4 #0846 Archives - I encourage you to go through the Archives and read some very interesting threads - you'll see 'Napolis's discoveries of facts along the way. Ferrari rather approves of 'Napolis's P4.
  5. P4Racer

    P4Racer Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    Full Name:
    max wakefield
    I think you will find that all is well with Davids 250LM. It races with a fibre galss body so that the ally one can remain safe for hight days and holidays.

  6. P4Racer

    P4Racer Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    Full Name:
    max wakefield
    There seems to be a lot of speculation about JG's car being real or not. The drive behind this one must assume is the desire to have a vehicle worth $10,000,000 if it is right and if its wrong one worth maybe it will scrape $1,000,000.

    I suspect the very same people who are so keen to say it was real would be less enthusiastic about the project were it to be declared fake. Likewise those that found it was real having said it was fake would not be convinced. It shouldn't matter one way or the other, save the $9million swing in value. I wonder does that value matter to any of us other than the owner?

    Can someone tell me what makes a car original? Or can we get together and agree.

    The chassis alone
    The body alone
    The Engine and Gearbox alone

    a combination of the above, and if so what.

    clearly, the body of a P4 should be made by Alegretti. Now dead, but if the car has a replica body it shouldn't matter.

    The engine and gearbox, are clearly a key factor but alone could nto be said to be the defining reason a car is or is not a P4.

    The chassis alone would seem to be the best guide, but without the correct engine/gearbox or body is it a P4. Probably?

    So what parts of is car are we saying are correct.

  7. P4Replica

    P4Replica Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    S.W. England
    Full Name:
    Paul S.
    The gist of the earlier discussion was not so much about whether JG's P4 was authentic or not - It certainly IS a beautiful and accurate reproduction of a P4. The arguments were more centered around whether there was sufficient proven original content to claim the provenance of the missing #0846 chassis number.
    It is the #0846 factor (which Jim assures us is academic, as he has no plans to sell) that will determine the ultimate value (historical and financial) of the finished car.
    PS - and there are a few other 'interesting' threads that are not included in the '#0846 Archives' summary.
    'Poor Man's P4 Replica Project' for one. Enjoy the read !
  8. P4Racer

    P4Racer Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    Full Name:
    max wakefield
    One man may fel a wheel spinner is enough to prove identity and another man may feel eveything minus one spinner is not enough to proove identity.

    What I wanted to know was at what point we felt something was real, and when it wasnt.

    From here we can extend the idea to JG's car. He can tell us what he feels is correct and what isn't.

  9. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Honorary

    Oct 23, 2002
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Responded to in P4 0846 Archive thread
  10. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    Sticking closely to the subject of Piper's 250LM (!), it wore GRP bodywork from 1968 onwards, so if that shell hadn't been damaged in crashes during it's long racing history, it would be just as historic (well, almost!) as the original ally body; but it has been shunted, more than a few times. When I visited Piper's workshop in 1994 it was stripped for repair after being crashed in a Supersports race at Monza by the pop singer Chris Rea, who had raced it several times before.

    Chris Rea, of course, is of Italian parentage and made a film called "La Passione" a few years ago about Wolfgang von Trips, for which he commissioned an out-and-out replica of a 1961 Ferrari 156/F1 GP car powered by a 1967 Fiat Dino 2000cc V6 65 deg engine (I think it's now in a museum somewhere), and also had a Ferrari 330 of some type converted into a look-alike of a TR61 Le Mans prototype.

    Paul Mac
  11. P4Racer

    P4Racer Rookie

    Dec 18, 2003
    Full Name:
    max wakefield

    I may have posted this twice, if so I am sorry.

    On the subject of 0846.

    I talked to David Piper this evening, and have some interesting answers, but this detective work is far too much fun to spoil our Agatha Christie P4 thriller right here.

    So to continue in the manner we have become used to:

    Can we see a photo of the engine and gearbox, and then we can analyze what we are looking at.

    All you P4 philes will know what we are looking for. Anyone out there have a good idea. There seem to be a lot of experts?
  12. jselevan

    jselevan Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 2, 2003
    Jim G. - you have a private message.

    Jim S.
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    Tauranga, NZ
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