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daytona A/C drain pipes

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by coachi, Jul 20, 2004.

  1. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    after living with my daytona for 15 years, I had the A/C fixed. Now it runs as well as I hear can be expected. However, the condensation seems to run from the sides of the tray onto the carpet on both sides of the console, instead of down the drain plastic tubes. I check the tubes from below, made sure they are not clogged (blew air through them and used a flexible rod and there is no clogs there. I suspect the tubes not to be properly attached or possibly the tray where the condensation collects to be leaking, but it leaks on both sides...I am stymied.

    Cant figure out how to access that tray; i.e. how to remove the cover with the A/C control switch on it.

    Any help?
     
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  3. billb

    billb Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jun 4, 2001
    407
    Shorewood, IL
    Full Name:
    Bill Badurski
    #2 billb, Jul 20, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Coach,
    Remove the seats, rear & front console sections. Next find the two black phillips screws located on each side of the enclosure and remove them. There's not much wire going to the two rotary switches on the front, so use car when pulling the black cover rearward. If more travel is required, remove the two knobs using an allen wrench, then the nuts securing the switches to the cover.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Bill....

    Thats is a very interesting photo! VERY.

    I have been kicking around the idea of replacing the factory A/C under dash unit with an aftermarket item from Performance Air or one of the other hotrod suppliers. Supposedly these guys have hundreds of differently sized units that can be used to replace a factory unit and provide MUCH better air volume and cooling.

    Is the unit in your photo a factory item? Are the dimensions marked on it accurate? If so, I could get the guys at Performance Air to price out a replacement that would fit in the factory space based on those specs.

    I want HARD/COLD A/C but I also want a totally stock appearance.

    What do you think?


    Terry
     
  5. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
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    Apr 17, 2002
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    San diego
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    Malcolm Barksdale
    Terry, I am having one made, if you wait untill after Monterey I will have it installed and let you know how it works. The stock part just doesnt let enough air through.
     
  6. billb

    billb Formula Junior
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    Jun 4, 2001
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    Bill Badurski
    Terry,
    The photo was taken of a customer car that I'm rebuilding the engine and gearbox in. He also wanted better A/C performance, but without cutting things up or having an overhang under the dash. I was rather disappointed with the responses from the company you refer to. Their advice was for me to review the catalog and find something. In their defense, I'm sure they have no experience with Ferrari. I did spend a great deal of time measuring and checking the catalog for a possible fit. There was nothing that met the limitations imposed. We did remove the two plastic doors on the sides of the cover unit, and smooth the air delivery somewhat. Testing shows that this mod improved air flow to the lower level of the car without any visible change to the configuration. Until the engine is back in place and the actual results can be checked, that's all I have for now. It will be interesting to see how Malcolmb's unit works. I'd appreciate either of you keeping me in the loop on this one.
     
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  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Four Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 28, 2003
    44,441
    Texas!
    All, this web site has the best discussion of retro fitting a/c systems that I have ever seen. Hell, even I understand some of it.

    http://www.griffiths.com/

    I have talked with the owner several times, and he has never done a Ferrari, but would love to try it. But he is a master on Porsches.

    Bill, this is a critical issue for me. I hate to say it, but the lack of a workable a/c has been one of the things that has kept me from buying a Daytona or a GTC. Yep, it's hot in Houston.

    Given this, I'd like to ask you one question. Namely, I have heard that one problem is that the stock alternator on the Daytona doesn't put out enough juice to drive a good a/c system. Has this been your experience? I understand that in the early days that it was quite common for Daytona owners to pull the altenator and use Delco or whatever. Now that we are concerned about originality and whatnow, people are reversing the trend.

    Your thoughts will be greatly appreciated. DrTax
     
  9. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Bill and Malcomb...

    I will wait until after Monterey and see how Malcombs deal comes out. I would certainly think that if you could come up with specs and plans for a unit that was really effective and fit behind the factory cover panel you could probably run a batch of 50+ and have no issue selling them!

    Its hot here in Atlanta for sure and I am going to have to have great A/C one way or another. Im sure it can be done its just a question of whats the best way.

    Dale, on the alternator issue I would be somewhat surprised if the stock unit was really that bad. I think its more likely that people diagnose this as an issue but the real problem is poor connections and such at the fuse panel. Bill did an article on that issue for Forza. Also, I once had my local electrical repair shop that rebuilds alternators and generators rebuild an E-Type Jag alternator with different internal bits that put out a fair bit more amps. Im sure the same could be done for the Ferrari.

    Cant wait to hear from Malcomb!


    Terry
     
  10. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
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    Apr 17, 2002
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    In the 80's people were putting second heat exchangers in Daytona's, I think the unit goes in the trunk and you bring the air forward into the back thru the bulkhead. My recollection is that the setup worked good, it was popular in PHX area for obvious reasons.Of course Terry, you wont be able to put the E-type spare parts in the trunk after the unit takes up all the space.
     
  11. billb

    billb Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jun 4, 2001
    407
    Shorewood, IL
    Full Name:
    Bill Badurski
    DrTax,
    The shop manual states the Marelli GCA113A alternator is rated at 60 amps max @ 5000 rpm. Most of the Daytonas I've driven have that old "shaky" ammeter needle quivering with the lights on and low rpm. The regulation is pretty prehistoric too. Can't tell you how many regulators I've replaced in 30 years, or the number of times I rebuilt that GCA113. Delco diodes are a couple thousands smaller OD than Marelli, but alternator shops would let me comb through the inventory with a micrometer and pick out the fattest ones. Got tired of all that about ten years ago, and replaced both the alternator and regulator with a Delco 94 amp internal regulator alternator. Not much of a problem to change over, and guess what, ten years with no failure, plenty of power, and no quivering ammeter. Now that's real originality, a Daytona without charging problems... one of who knows how few. Humbug on having a crappy charging system in the name of keeping it stock. I saved the old bits for the next caretaker.

    The charging system is not the root cause of the A/C malady. It's the design of the evaporator unit. Too small, only two outlets atop the dash and two tiny floor outlets. Add to that a steeply raked windshield with no tinting, and even though discharge air temp is quite cool on these cars, by the time it hits your face it's lost the punch.
     
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  13. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
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    Apr 17, 2002
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    Malcolm Barksdale
    perfect respnse, and my viewpoint too. After the evaporator I wilm do the alternator. I would donthem atr the samew time but want to learn the real problem
     
  14. billb

    billb Formula Junior
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    Jun 4, 2001
    407
    Shorewood, IL
    Full Name:
    Bill Badurski
    Malcolmb,
    If you need help on the alternator project, let me know. The stock mounting bracket works with a spacer, but you'll have to fabricate a belt tensioner bracket. I used a junkyard one for a Chevy. Also need to use a reverse rotation fan or uni-directional fan as the alternator runs opposite direction.
     
  15. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
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    Apr 17, 2002
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    Bill: I will bepleased to accept help, especially with the Alt model number and the brackets. I will do this after NO in November. I plan to do the evaporator prior to NO. I agree with the VR sitiution, just replaced mine, needle wiggles just like the old one.
     
  16. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
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    Sep 30, 2003
    15,974
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    I NEED A JOB
    i love threads like this, please keep those stunning Daytonas on the road!
     
  17. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Malcomb....

    Any progress? I remember hearing something about after monterey, so I figured its time to ask!


    Terry
     
  18. aventino

    aventino Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2003
    768
    Hong Kong
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    David L
    Thanks all for an interesting thread that doesn't involve that car (no #s required). Vintage A/C also do a good product if you are looking for a replacement. Can be found on the mother of all hot rod sites:

    www.roadsters.com/welcome/

    8600 odd links to hot rod parts.
     
  19. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
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    Malcolm Barksdale
    Terry: The new evaporator is built, I will do the job in the next month. I have decided to do the alternater at the same time. I will take pictures. Missed you at CI, good crowd as you have seen, about ten Daytonas on display. Drove mine up from SD on a beautifull summer day, along highway !.
     
  20. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    You guys have any more photos of the A/C unit including the fan blower?

    How does the fan blower motor and cover assembly come out of the car? I need to replace the blower switch. I have the center console out, but have not tacked actually removing the blower motor assembly yet.

    The guy who was supposedly the "expert" interior guy had this all apart last Dec. to recover the dash clearly screwed it all up on reassembly. There is plenty of Duct tape crammed up in there behind the unit and I have no idea what I'm going to find when it comes out. What an JERK.... So far 80% of the stuff I paid him for has had to be totally redone.

    Malcomb... any news or new photos of hte new parts? If I was going to do something similar... now would be a good time!


    Terry
     
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  21. billb

    billb Formula Junior
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jun 4, 2001
    407
    Shorewood, IL
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    Bill Badurski
    #18 billb, Sep 13, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  22. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Apr 17, 2002
    957
    San diego
    Full Name:
    Malcolm Barksdale
  23. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
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    Apr 17, 2002
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    Full Name:
    Malcolm Barksdale
    Terry: mine goes in next week, I will take photos.
     
  24. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Argggghhhhhh

    Coach originally started this thread because he couldnt get the dang cover panel that holds the A/C switches off. Bill posted to remove two black phillips head screws on either side and it would come off. Well.... no on my car.

    There are no screws. There are two bolts on the sides at the top, but I have removed them and the cover is still fixed solid.

    The center console is removed and the entire unit cover panel and all will move around a bit, but the cover panel itself moves with the entire unit and will not seperate off.

    It appears to be glued or bonded to the fan housings in the rear and may be bonded in some way to the evaporator housing, but I cannot tell.

    I have crawled all over it for several hours trying to figure out how it comes apart, but Im stumped. It appears that to remove the cover will basically require destroying it and possibly the fan housings as well.

    So, are these covers available? How about the fan housings? Malcomb.... is your unit in and does it work?

    It seems I have a choice to make: either just slop it all together and accept that fact that the car has "fake" A/C or destroy all the stuff in the car currently while removing it and hope I can find parts to get it all correct. I have to have this car together in time for New Orleans!



    Terry




    PS: The guy who worked on my car last winter really screwed it up. Joe Nitti in Cape Coral Florida... avoid him like the plague!
     
  25. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
     
  26. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    sorry the last message was screwed up like it was...I was addressing Terry and meant to quote his post before posting my comments...geez.....actualy the entire post is mine, not Terry's quote.
     
  27. coachi

    coachi Formula 3

    May 1, 2002
    2,108
    SC USA
    I just saw this post. Terry...I tried to tell you to avoid Joe Nitti... he used to work for FaF and then became an independent...he too recovered my dash, and screwed lots of things that I have had to have reworked. He is absolutely worthless...except to call you and say : I need more money, send me more money. He did an awful job...and i know what he must have done...he bonded the back part to the front part od the cover that goes over the A/C and the only way to remove it is to break that bond...then the front part of the cover will come off and the rear will have to wiggled out...what a crummy design. I'll send you a PM with my phone number...give me a call during office hours...I will discuss with you
     
  28. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Coachi,

    Joe Nitti is indeed a piece of work.

    But I dont think he is responsible for my A/C maladies. I did get the unit out. The issue with mine is that its just not a factory unit. It looks nothing like the photos Bill posted. The whole evaporator unit in mine sits down within the outer cover with aluminum sheeting thrown together in a sort of rough air ducting that sorta routes the air to the two vents at the dash top. So in effect, the outer cover is not a cover at all, it forms the body of the unit.

    Looking at it.... it might not be that bad a design. It does allow more basic room for air flow and the evaporator unit is larger. It would appear the problem with this setup is the means by which the air is routed to the vents. So much of it would blow out under the dash that almost none comes out the vents.

    So, my first thought is to hope Malcomb has come up with a better solution and perhaps I can get a unit made from his guys.

    If that doesnt work, I am going to fix this one. I will try to design my own more effecient means of air ducting to go on the top of this thing and route the air to the dash vents.

    I too need an A/C blower switch. Im searching the usual suspects now.


    Terry
     

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