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Daytona "compact" vs. "extended" bumpers

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by shill288, Mar 2, 2007.

  1. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

    Feb 24, 2005
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    Steve Hill
    #1 shill288, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In some other threads on FerrariChat, and a website dedicated to Daytonas, there is a belief that USA cars have extended bumpers and European cars have compact bumpers. I have no idea how this myth started, but let's address it. What you are about to see and hear is not in any Ferrari spare parts book that I know of.

    Ok, so I'm putting my head on the chopping block. I welcome comments and don't be afraid to call me names. I've been called them all, just not in all languages yet.

    Only USA cars built late in 1972 through 1973 have the extended bumpers. USA 1971 and 1972 Model Year cars have "compact" bumpers, but not necessarily the same bumpers. Following will be pictures used as examples. I use "model year" because in late 1972 Ferrari already started importing Daytonas with the 1973 changes. I have a 1972 Spyder with all the 1973 mods already on the car. The DOT changed the rear bumper crash test from 2.5 mph to 5 mph on Sept 1972. So, this may be the reason why the bumpers came in earlier than 1973. That said, there was an exemption from the bumper requirements for all two seat cars until 9/1/74. So, in theory, Ferrari never had to do this for the Daytona. I've never been told why Ferrari modified the Daytona when they didn't have to.

    On 1973 cars Ferrari changed the rear end to add a (all number approximate) a 1 3/4 inch by 3/4 sqaure tube to the trunk, but not against the body work. The Euro cars and earlier USA cars use a 3/4 inch by 3/4 squre tube that rests against the bodywork. To this, Ferrari welded the new, longer, bumper supports, painted black (Euro cars and earlier USA cars are body color) to the tubing. The supports on these cars are not attached to the body in any way. That's why Ferrari put a black rubber piece over the supports to cover the hole in the bodywork. Ferrari also moved the gas tank struts inwards (away from the gas tanks) to secure them right behind the bumper supports. On the earlier USA cars, and Euro cars, the small, body color, painted support has not rubber piece, is attached to the body and welded to the small trunk frame. I've suspect Ferrari painted the extended, late USA, supports black so the black rubber piece covering the hole in the bodywork wouldn't be as noticeable. But, that's an educated guess. The early USA cars and Euro cars have bumpers that are both "compact", but the chrome piece that attaches to the bumper is beefier on the USA cars and the Euro bumpers have the metal plate for attaching the reverse lights. I would like to hear from anyone with a late Euro car to see if it uses the USA beefier chrome piece as well. Following will be pictures documenting all this.

    In the front, early USA cars and pop-up Euro cars use the same support structure. The early Plexiglass cars, because of more room, have slightly different, but similiar structure. (Again, you'll see pictures of all this.) The bumpers, in general, are the same except for the Euro cars with bumper guards. The late USA cars have a completely different design. Like the rear, Ferrari welded in a thick peice of square tubing (same size as rear) and welded longer front bumper supports directly to it. The actual front bumper on the later USA car is different as well, it has extra bracing in it.

    From my experience of ownership, and driving other cars, I've always wondered if this extra bracing front and rear explains why the 73 USA Spyders I've driven/owned drive better than the Euro and early USA Spyders I've driven/owned? Just a thought.

    Ok, on to some pictures. The first four are of: 1969 Euro car, 1971 USA car, 1973 Euro car, and 1973 USA car. You can cleary see all the bumpers look "compact" except for the 1973 USA car.

    Steve
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  3. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    #2 shill288, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are pictures of the different types of front end supports. The first is an early Euro car, the second style is use on early USA cars and Euro pop-up headlight cars and the last two are of the late USA style. You can see the thick square tubing through the grill as well on the late cars. The Euro cars and early USA Daytonas don't have this. Unless, of course, you crashed your front end and someone repairs it in this fashion.

    I need to learn to take better pictures, all the red on the support is reflecting from the red paint. I assume this is because the flash went off, or maybe not.

    Steve
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  4. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    #3 shill288, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  5. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    #4 shill288, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And pictures of a 1971 USA car (just as compact as the previous Euro car), and detailed pictures of a 1973 USA rear bumper. The earlier USA cars are just like this except the chrome piece is one inch smaller in length. Amazing how much bigger the late USA rear bumpers look compared to the earlier ones when the different is only an inch. (Yeah, I know, that's what she said.)

    So, here's a question to 1973 Euro Daytona owners: "Do you have the smaller chrome support piece on your bumper or the wider USA style on your bumpers?

    Steve
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  6. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    #5 shill288, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I should have mentioned that if you look closely, you'll see the rubber piece on the black painted bumper support. I'll a better picture of this coming up.

    Here are the differences between the European and early USA (the same) and late USA cars. The first two are of a 1973 USA Spyder. You can see the extra bracing and how the support goes through the body and welded the bracing. Also, you can see where the gas tank support sturts now attach. The third picture is how the early USA and European cars do it. A simple attachment to the body and small trunk frame. Basically useless. At least Ferrari attempted to make it work with the later USA cars. The last picture is of the rubber piece that goes over the extended support on the late USA cars to cover the hole in the bodywork.

    Steve
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  8. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    #6 shill288, Mar 2, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Finally, the differences comparing the front bumpers of the Euro/early USA cars with the later USA cars. The top bumper in both pictures is the "73" USA bumper. You can see the extended bumper attachements and the extra bracing in the "73" USA front bumper.

    Anyone keeping track of how many different bumpers we have for Daytonas?

    Steve
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  9. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Wow Steve: lots of information to digest here! Thanks for taking the time to lay all this out with pictures to illustrate the differences. Perhaps it will chase a few Daytona owners out to the garage with camera in hand. Hopefully some feedback will follow. It reminds me of the San Francisco Daytona spyders that had all that effort spent restoring the 'inside' of the bumpers. Then the effort to see that each bumper was mounted perfectly straight. Great Ferrari; the Daytona.
    CH
     
  10. 410SA

    410SA F1 Veteran

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Great info and well explained. There are so many myths surrounding Ferraris that it is a breath of fresh air to find this high quality level of information.
    I have 1971 Euro Spyder (14415) and it has the slightly smaller bumpers. What I don't have is seatbelts. My car was originally delivered in Italy without seat belts and air conditioning. When it was restored in the US in the mid 90's it was kept seatbeltless. I'd really like to source Daytona Specific seat belts because it is a little intimidating sitting in an open car with relatively low sides. Do you have any sources?
     
  11. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    For your car, you need Klippan 517RP belts. Starting in January, 1972 all USA Daytonas were required to have retractable seat belts. The Klippan 562 is correct for these cars. The only difference between a European Klippan 517RP and USA Klippan 517RP (70/71 USA build dates) is the USA cars will have a DOT label on the belt. I'll send pictures of these when I go to the computer in my warehouse where I store my cars.

    There are certain "experts" that first claimed that all USA Daytonas had Klippan 562 belts. Not true. Then the same "experts" stated that only Coupes had the non-retractable 517RP belts. Also, not true. I own a 1971 (and 72 and 73) factory Daytona Spyder. The Dec 71 build date Spyder has Klippan 517RP belts with the DOT tag. As do 14383, 14463, etc.

    I'm not sure why some Concours Judges get this wrong.

    In future posts I'll deal with some of the myths on wiper arms/blades, paint in the rain wells (it does vary by year), etc., etc. All with pictures to document.

    I started this because I got tired of hearing of friends getting deducted points on cars incorrectly. Someone actually deducted points on a Euro car for having unpainted (not black) wiper arms. Only USA cars were required to have these. All my Euro cars have unpainted arms. It wouldn't surprise to hear some late Euro cars to have painted Arman arms.

    Steve
     
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  13. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    #10 shill288, Mar 3, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Attached are two pictures of the different gas tank supports mentioned above. The first one is what you'll see in the European and pre-extended rear bumper (1970, 1971 and through most of 1972) USA cars. The second one, with the gas tanks removed, is the one used in the late USA cars with extended bumpers. One downside to this set up is the gas tank support is now slightly over the spare tire. As anyone with a late USA car will tell you, it makes getting at the spare tire a bit of a bear.

    By the way, this is a original 1973 USA Spyder. As many people have mentioned, all Daytonas rust, and this one is no different. This car hasn't been run since the 1980s.

    And, yes, that is the correct rain well paint job for a car built in Feb 1973. The sharp eye will recognize this is different than the early cars (all body color) and mid-cars (second half of 1971 to somtime right around Jan 1973, I'm still trying to nail this down more).

    Steve
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  14. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    #11 Daytonafan, Mar 4, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  15. shill288

    shill288 Formula Junior

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    Yup, those are the bumper guards/overriders I was referring. Interesting that yours don't have the clear lights on top of them. I usually seem them that way. And, yes, those would be what people call "compact".

    Steve
     
  16. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    That maybe because it's a UK car. Not sure why but the UK spec cars differ in a number of ways from the rest of Europe (apart from the obvious RHD).

    UK cars don't have the clear indicators of the other Euro's and many don't have an open gate shifter, rather a leather gear shoe.
     
  17. gcalex

    gcalex Karting
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    Resurrecting this old thread, because I think the info I am seeking would be best grouped-in with all the above tidbits...

    Could someone with a Euro Daytona, one that still has the reversing-lights mounted to the bumpers, take a look from below the bumper, and let me know how the wires get from inside the trunk to each of the reversing lights?

    I'm trying to get my car back to full-Euro spec, and this is one of the things that has me a bit perplexed.

    I assume that the wires must come-out through the round bumper-support tubes, but as the supports that attach to the bumper look to be essentially "sealed" at the bumper end (the end that goes into the trunk is suitably "open"), I'm not sure how the wires get out.

    Since someone replaced the bumpers on my car with late-USA versions, I'm wondering whether the supports that attach to the bumper are a little different on Euros.

    Any info from examination of an actually Euro car would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance!
     

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