daytona engine rebuild. cost.

While you are in there is the catcher here, may as well do the clutch, suspension bushings and shocks, exhaust, brakes and alternator and ac compressor, hell you can spend $80k in a heartbeat. Figure about $40k if you just do the engine and there is nothing broken.
You know, of course, how I know this -:]
Malcolm

 

Never done an engine for that amount...ok all of them were race engines, but V12 are much more expensive and better the time you rebuilt ancillaries, etc you will reach much more.

 

My best advise is to use someone with lots of experience with your engine type. They are not straight forward to rebuild. I am sure someone who works on these engines regularly will give you an accurate quote.

 

Expect a minimum of $50K to do it right.
Ask around for a quality shop. It took a shop in southern California 2 years and 3 attempts to rebuild my C/4 motor, which is essentially the same as your Daytona motor. The original estimate included a 1 year unconditional warranty. The shop went out of business shortly after the car was completed, although the guy that botched the motor is still out there claiming to be one of the best.
Feel free to PM for details.

 

SCM had an article on this...

Cheaper to keep adding oil than a rebuild...

 

$40k if there is no issue to crank , block etc.

 

I would think Step 1, would be to answer the question:

"Rings, or just valves?"

..and go forward, carefully, from there???

I can count on four fingers, maybe five, the number of people in the US to do it.

 

This is more in line with my experience. Problem is you may spend that AND still not been properly done. The idea of 40k if everything is good,,sorry but we have to assume everything is not good,,,otherwise as said earlier, just have valves adjusted, timing adjusted, and put more oil when needed. But if you need to do it, i.e. Running the engine will destroy the block or you are racing and need performance ( my issue) then you are faced with a full rebuilt. That includes all new parts piston, rings, conrods, etc and you have lot of choices there for quality, but problem will be with crankshaft. If past tolerance as your engine has already been rebuilt,,then you have a big problem. And I have been faced with this several times . On this you have to rectify the head and the block, and rebuilt carburators etc and the work necessary to put it in and out...and while you are there and engine out, next is do you change clutch or not,,and answer is yes...I am just finishing rebuilding a Maserati race engine ( lost oil in Le Mans as a hose went off, so we were just checking)..some of the bearings / journal had to be changed but none of the major moving parts,,and we are up to 25 at this stage..and this is a 6 cylinder engine!
The best in Europe and may be worth shipping in view of USD/ EUR exchange rate is Piet Roelof in Netherlands. My Daytona group 4 engine produces 482hp at the bench,,,and 3 ( limited) racing seasons and pulls better than any other car I have! I have heard of Carobu in the US , never tested them but read their rebuilds are bullet proof.
In other words, based on 30 years of rebuilding or not engine, either you don't do it, and most of time people could still could use the engines as they are unless a valve is broken or the head gasket is gone! or you do it fully; then the issue is not the price, no short cuts and nothing like a bargain, but you spend what you need to spend, but you have an engine for the next 30 years so long you use it properly ( warm up, no over rev, oil changes etc). But for that you need to be sure you are with the right person. And still accident may happen, I had a 5000 km brand new 275GTB/2 engine that dropped a valve during Tour Auto at le castellet , collided with piston and went through the head, lost all the oil on the track,,in a corner, not nice, of course stopped immediately but the car needed a new head and a full engine rebuilt. I was so upset I sold the car as is,,,and bought my first Ferrari 500 Mondial,,but this is another story!

 

Patrick Ottis Company in Berkeley is one of the most experienced Ferrari engine builders in the country. He and I worked with each other years ago and my reference is not made lightly. At the very least I would talk to him.

510-849-3553

 

The right answer!

But there is always "other stuff".

 

Gut Trigaux and his son Gregory at GTM and Son in Greenville SC rebuilt my 275GTB engine. They did a meticulous job, the engine runs beautifully and pulls redline easily. When the engine was removed it made 165 HP on the dyno, after the rebuild it pulled 270 at 6000RPM. we replaced everything except the crank which was perfect after 180,000KM, and the rods. New valves, guides, pistons. They also rebuild my Dino 2.4l engine with similar results. The are meticulous old world Belgians, communicate well with the client and are generally nice people. I recommend them with no qualms.
Malcolm

 

I am not personally experienced in this but there have been very good reports about Tom Yang. tonga's crew

 

Agreed.

 

Blew up my 275 GTB engine at 7750 rpm,,,was told it was bullet proof until 8000...😀All my Ferrari engine go beyond 6000 in races except the 4 cylinder engines who don't like revving high!

 

Bira, wow, expensive explosion. Top or bottom end failure? It has a pretty short stroke so my guess would be top end. Bottom end invariably more expensive.

To the owner of the engine that started this topic, leakdown issue causes are quite plentiful - some relatively easy fixed, some only expensively. It all depends on what is wrong and what your standard is for fix/rebuild. An engine that drove very little and has seen mostly cold starts, may either have coked rings, worn rings, worn bores or worse, broken rings and scratched bores, all with vary variable price tags. Coked rings may be solved by solvents and simple use of the car (sitting still is NOT always ok!).

Compare it to your average daily driver. An engine overhaul is 5k, a valve fix 700. That is a huge variation because of a huge variation in time, parts, time to procure said parts and warranty. You can expect a similar anwer here. So, what is the problem exactly and are you expecting a repair of what is wrong or a complete overhaul?

 

Broken valve that dropped into cylinder, collided with piston going up,,and went through the head,,,,so yes very expensive and disappointing situation, even on last day of tour auto, Castellet being the last race!!


From earlier experience I am totally against partial rebuilt top or bottom as invariably when you tight up one part, leaks increase on the other part. I did once a top end rebuilt and leaks were massively increased down. So suggestion is even if the engine produces 200 hp and uses 1 gallon of oil per 1000 miles, live with it, run more often and wait until the car does not start anymore! Of have a full rebuilt from end to end,,but then what about the suspension, the bushes, the brakes, the electric,,,having restored more than half a dozen cars to full Pebble Beach level, and exhibited there few times, even if I prefer to race cars, bringing them back to 90 points quite fast,,,experience is it starts small and ends up with full restoration,,,

 

It does indeed become a slippery slope, and you don't know if you have solved the problem while it's still open. One thing leads to another. If you are a perfectionist, you might as well address everything else.

Wonderfully you have the knowledge that you have made your car perfect for the next 20 years!

 

Some one with more experience enjoying and restoring vintage vehicles than I have, recently provided an amazingly apt comment when it comes to an average cost of professionally & properly rebuilding & restoring an older (25+ years ?) Ferrari engine: "About $4000.- per cylinder and goes up from there if any surprises are discovered"**

Upon hearing it, my 35+ years of experience lead me to agree with this assessment.
I've heard of some (many?) having been done for a lot less, which can tend to make one wonder what and how many shortcuts were taken ?

In same context, to properly rebuild/restore even many higher end vintage American V8s can easily reach $20K-$30K and beyond.

** Same person told me of costs and details associated with a specific, very early 12-cyl. Ferrari engine rebuild and if this info had been offered by some one else and without details, I might've not believed the seemingly astronomical figures. These details included some quite horrifying misdeeds done during some previous "rebuild" efforts earlier in the cars life.

 

This photo shows the source of the little clicking noise from the engine which triggered the rebuild. I was so pissed when the valve broke at around 3000RPM just driving down the highway that I drove it 20 miles home. In the end the liners were ok. Everything else got replaced, estimate was just under $40k, actually around $45k when complete. Of course I did the transaxle, suspension etc bringing the total to around the $80k in the first post. Engine now has around 15,000 miles on it, runs great. Daytonas are tough.
Malcolm
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I not new to spending copious amounts on my 355, what I'm curious about is why it could possibly be $80,000(?) to rebuild an older v12? Is it the astronomical price of factory parts or does everything labour wise take way longer? Please pardon my ignorance, I realize these are rare cars/engines but there must still be parts available? It's still a gasoline burning reciprocating engine....I'm baffled....and probably a little simple, please educate me. Daytona is the sexiest car on earth, Miura is close though.

 

Although running OK at the time, this engine was removed and rebuilt due to commonly known Daytona engine issues including severe oil leaks, fear of it possibly still wearing O.E. exhaust valves (proved warranted, heads had never been removed before) and at 6xxxx miles it was clearly past its prime performance life.

Before the engine removal, we had an opportunity to test the output on a chassis dyno and will conduct comparison test as soon as the comprehensive restoration of the car itself is completed.
Upon completion of rebuild, the engine was tested on dyno and the car driven +/- 2K miles before the restoration was started. Both the dyno and road test results were quite rewarding.

Just to showcase some complexity differences between vintage American (Performance) V8 and 365 GTB/4 engines, I've attached a photo of a disassembled 1956 Chrysler Hemi.
In all fairness the Ferrari engine break down photo features numerous components not present in the Hemi picture, like carbs & intakes, ignition system and clutch, etc.
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My 365GT engine cost considerably less to rebuild than the figures being batted around here, and it was done by a guy who isn't a "name" rebuilder, but who has rebuilt a good number of Ferrari V-12s.

As to the expense, first of all these motors have always been expensive to rebuild. And, given the value of most of the vintage cars, it probably makes sense to use a "name" rebuilder-- if you have a $2 million car, using a well known rebuilder for $80k instead of $40k is probably easily gotten back when you go to sell the car.

Actually, I wonder why these motors are so cheap to rebuild. In the 1970s and early 1980s, a V-12 rebuild was commonly quoted at $25k.