Daytona for sale-some TLC required ----------------------

1. someone buys a black Daytona

2. something happens to it - meteorite, aliens

3. insurance pays out the write off or they don't, it doesn't matter

4. car sits for eternity, unowned, unloved

Maybe the original owner is dead?

I know I still 'own' some cars that are sitting in a field somewhere... I'm pretty sure you guys do too.

T.

 

tony how much do you want for the ferraris in your field and what are the serial numbers

 

Indeed, Pete - Why not ? It's been done before: http://www.carclassic.com/html/DE42.htm Looks like they also used the donor Daytona's wheels on his Dino V-6 engined P4 replica: http://www.carclassic.com/html/DE40.htm Incedentally, the owner of these cars also has two Daytonas - a 'plexiglass' and a 'pop-up' headlamp model.

 

Horsefly,

For once I agree with you and can finally see your point. You are saying that the qualities of the car NOT the number built should determine the interest it generates.

Well sorry, for many so called Ferrari enthuisasts they buy the older cars because they have the only one (or few) on the block and this gives them a hard-on. These sort of people trailor their cars to concours competitions and as far as I know never even drive them. There is good reason for never driving them, because many so called rare and collectible cars drive like a piece of ****.

Take the collectibility of the Series 1 PF Coupe. Drum brakes and inside plugs (so handy for occasional under bonnet fires ) and a car that drives (apparently) poorly compared to the Series 2, where Ferrari IMPROVED the design and thus abilities of the car by solving design issues with the Series 1 ... but no the flawed Series 1 is more collectible and the Series 2 left for replica makers to destroy.

In the end Horsefly we DO have to accept that for many Ferraris are just trophies!, not cars.

As for this particular car, hmmm, while I am saving an Alfa Romeo 1750 Mk2 GTV from the scrap yard ... and note this is the most numerous 105 series model, but the best driver!!! ... even I can see huge amounts of work here. Yes it is absolutely possible, but Ferrari guys are always so caught up in the financial side that they could not embarrass themselves amongst their financial wizard mates by sinking that much money and effort into a financial loss.

The muscle car group on the other hand and the REAL petrol heads get a hard-on even thinking about the chance to own a genuine Shelby Mustang or whatever, and thus they would see it as their lifes mission to bring this car back from destruction.

Who is the better car enthuisast ... well I believe it is the person that sees the car for the cars sake, who is not embarrassed to get weak kneed and silly passionate about their favourite car ... and finances come second. That is a real hoby, one where money spent is spent on your hoby ... not because you are going to make ends meet or a profit. This sort of person is in a minority I believe in the Ferrari world and most of that is because a person who can afford a collectible Ferrari is usually a professional person who has been trained to be wise/smart with their money!

P4Replica,

Yep, why not ... but I do wonder what that car would look like on a chassis machine, right door removed and chassis exposed. Remove a few bent members and pull the rest straight and then it starts to look fixable ... but there are many options for the future of this car. One of them is a P4 replica, another is it might give a not so rich person their only chance to own a Daytona ... and 10+ years later after hand making 60% of the body, etc. this car is drivable ... only time will tell

Pete
ps: Even Rob's post regarding the 275GTB versus 288GTO shows that even Rob thinks financial FIRST and then rarity and then lastly driving enjoyment ... his prerogative, but where is the heart!.

ps2: There is one other thing that is relevant. The muscle car group of enthusiasts are used to their favourite brand making millions of cars of a particular type ... thus possibly to them the 200,000 Shelbies made (note I have no idea of the actual number) seems rare to them??? ... thus are they any different?

Something to think about

 

Maranello Sales, Ltd.'s "A Guide To Ferrari Road Cars"; one of my new best friends that never leaves my desk along with a bunch of articles Gerald's written in the past and a bunch of pieces of scrap paper with NNO serial numbers sprawled on them...

Anyway, A Guide To Ferrari Road Cars lists seemingly every Ferrari road car built since 1960 and lists the total factory production... It's possible that it's a misprint or just downright wrong; i'll try to find out... i mean, after all, it says there were only 349 F50s and we all know that's not right...

 

Just fix the damn thing and get it over with already. Remember Rolands F-40?..everybody called it a baskket case..it not worth it etc etc...well everybody loves his car now..same can be done with this Daytona.

Remember guys it's just metal and a few rubber bits throwen together. It's not a god or a human life..so if it gets scrapped...bummer one less Ferrari. If it's fixed... Great!! Another car to suck fuel...

 

To Pete and Horsefly:

Buy it! If you have the convictions you express, commit. You will have a relatively complete, dead Ferrari that you can try saving. If you get over your head you will be able to get most - if not all - of your money back from parting it out (the parts will go to save other needy Daytonas). If you don't have the money, interest is low so take a loan. This is your big chance to get off the sidelines and jump in!

I did. I saved a 330 2+2 that was going to lose its engine and made it into a great driver that doesn't look half bad. If I sell, I will probably loose money, but I did it anyway.

Regards,

Art S.

PS. if you don't buy it, you, as part of the Ferrari community, are in the same boat as the rest of us in letting a poor, unloved Daytona die.

 

Art,

One day mate I will ... but I'd rather the wreck was in Australia and right hand drive. Not a fan of importing cars, been there done that and just too hard.

But the point was that the car IS saveable ... just not profitable.

Pete

 

Everything is savable. They even save homes in hurricane towns. This I think is a bit different. Dead is dead unless money means nothing. No one has missed it for the past 20 some years. No one will miss it if it is reincarnated into other cars. Let the poor car spill its ashes.

 

What does it mean to you?

To me, I work and thus obtain money so that I, and my family, can live how we would like too and never go hungry. Yep we could always do better, but that involves me working more and thus I am a big fan of the balance in life ... as I do not want to get to the end and reflect: 'gee, I sure worked hard and made lots of money', I'd rather get to the end and reflect: 'gee, I had some fun and had enough'.

Thus the fact that you sink too much money into a hobby is no big deal ... so what, unless you missed morgage repayments all it means is that you have worked a little more for your hobby than normal

Not everything should be done in ones life to balance the books ... otherwise none of us would ever chase that lovely looking lady we spotted, get married, have kids and otherwise enjoy life.

Thus in conclusion, I think way to many people (usually well off people too ... confused) overstate the importance of money. If you have enough ... you have enough, relax about it and spend it

Pete's opinion
ps: In the end this car all comes down to whether you want to stuff around restoring the car or NOT (or creating a replica from it) ... while a huge job and obviously missing many parts, just about all cars once stripped down and bare metalled, require a similar restoration effort ... as they are all just metal and rubber, etc. that needs to be repainted, replaced, etc.

 

If money is no option, rather than spend it on frivolous items like this to-far-gone Daytona, buy a decent realistically priced Daytona and give the difference (it will be significant) to a charity. Would you describe that as balanced?

 

Yep ... but there is one point that I would like to make.

My last post was not meant to imply that 'money is no option', as in I have large sums sitting in the bank, more that over time I do not mind spending it on my hobbies.

Thus yes if you have the bank balance, absolutely buy a perfect Daytona and give the rest away ... but if you are like me and this sort of Daytona is the only in your reach, then buy it and your hobby becomes restoring life to a sad Daytona, and you do not mind spending X on it each year, etc. because you are having fun.

Pete

 

In the Gerald Roush/Pat Braden Daytona book, they claim the frame is very strong and is usually not bent badly in most accidents. Given enough money, there's no reason any daytona couldn't be rebuilt and put back on the road. The ebay pictures looks similar to pictures of wrecked cars in the Daytona book, cars that were rebuilt, usually into spiders.

I think the Daytona is on the cusp of being worth preserving instead of parting. It could go either way. Perhaps in a couple of years the choice will be more obvious.

By the way, horsefly, I do think you have a valid point. I do wish you'd present it in a less provacative manner, though! Generalizing Fchatters and the Ferrari community at large as rich, hypocritical fools is not a good way to make a point.

-steve

 

Looks like a good Spyder conversion candidate.

Freeman

 

My disgust at the thought of that Daytona being hacked up just for parts is fueled by what I've seen during the past 20 years among the Corvette crowd. They gleefully hacked apart perfectly savable cars so that they could alledgedly save a few other wrecks, but many times, those other wrecks were in worse shape than the car being parted out! The REAL purpose for parting out the car was, of course, to make a few bucks. Most of the hackers always seem to be a bunch of grubby, fly-by-night guys who only remain in business a few years until their supply of hackable cars dries up, then they move on to the next get-rich-quick scheme. It would seem that anybody, anywhere, can get a job and earn a few bucks. But nobody, anywhere, can ever create an original Ferrari Daytona again. Tell the money grubbing hucksters to go get a part time job if they want to earn a few bucks. Leave the rare cars intact so that people who truely love the cars can restore another one and keep the dream alive.
At the very least, they should spare us the mantra about the Ferrari mystique, when in reality, they are just like any other chop shop operation who hack apart cars to make some money.
I think that these guys would have stood on the deck of the Titanic and sold life jackets, including their own, until their feet started getting wet.

 

you guys need to look at the pics again. that car was just put in that spot. there is no way it has sat there outside with air in those tires in that spot for all this time. it surely had to be somewhere else, sheltered and was recently moved to where it is now. i will say it again ,no freaking way has been sitting under a tarp in that spot with air in the tires and all that crap open to the weather.
except for the time i found hair and teeth ect ( yuck) in a dash and on the windshield header of a car, i love poking around wrecking yards and abandoned piles of cars.
if you are in the business to play with old broken fcars, this is a goldmine to get a hold of. all those little pieces and prts that you can replace on your "money" cars while slowly feeding the parts of this one to its mates, to keep them alive and for sale. why do you think i have been "THE CARREAPER" for so long? you buy just one like this, and the next 7 or 8 v12 cars you get from this era , you can replace this and that and it looks correct and original. i would have to see it before i would believe, even as an enthusiast of "beaters" that this thing should be a car again. very cool thread .

 

Hmmm... well how would you describe the King of the Toasted Ponies?

Dale

 

4 ways to get a Daytona competition

1. Just buy a real one, if there is one on the market and pay US$1.500.000,-

2. Buy a competition conversion and spend at least US$250.000,- and then find out it still needs an engineoverhaul because the old owner just liked the car for the looks and forgot to do the engine, or the old owner raced it until the engine was wornout.

3. Get your hands on a cheap complete car and expect to pay atleast US$100.000,- like the one at Motorcar Gallery a couple of weeks ago and then strip the car. Have a new alloy body made for it and throw the old steel body away.Have the engine done. And go RACING.

4. Or buy this wreck because all you need to have a winning car.
is: - A chassis with a title
- A drivetrain
- Some suspension parts
- A dashboard
Your are going to have to make a:
* new alloy body

CONCLUSION

YES IT MAKE SENCE TO BUY THIS WRECK AT A REASONABLE PRICE TO MAKE A WINNING COMPETITION CAR OUT OF IT.

OF COURSE THERE IS NOTHING BETTER THEN THE ORIGINAL COMPETITION CAR.

 

There's one guy here in Little Rock who has bounced around between 4 or 5 different places through the past 20 years or so. They open up shop and gleen the field of any restorable Corvette or classic hulk by buying up anything that pops up for sale in the local paper. They drag it back to their place with the appropriate 1000% mark up. He also scammed a few guys by selling their cars on consignment but never coughed up the cash. There were also rumors of selling the same car twice, pocketing down payments, etc. I've lost track of the number of cars that I never even got a chance to look at because one of the local shyster wheeler dealers bought it before I even had a chance to see it. When you actually WORK at least 8 hours a day, it's difficult to beat these car lot shysters to somebody's house that list a car for sale in the classifieds. One guy had a "Corvette Wanted" ad running in the local paper for about 10 years straight. The barn cars finally dried up about 10 years ago and most of these guys finally had to get a real job. The only guy who ever had anything exotic like Ferrari closed up his car lot nearly 20 years ago. I've heard so many crooked stories concerning classic car resto shops, including theft, deception, even MURDER, that I could fill an entire thread.

 

SORRY FORGOT SOMETHING

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THAT IT WILL BRING BACK LIFE AGAIN TO A LOST LIFE OF A REAL CLASSIC FERRARI.

 

I hope this link can be accessed - it is unbelieveble.

Comments, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bob Z.

http://www.symbolicmotors.com/mainpages/carpage.php?cid=1938Alfa8C2900

 

Did I miss something in that link? The link states that: "It has therefore been suggested than an expedition should be mounted to "exhume" the remains on the site to see what is recoverable."

From the looks of the photos, the remains WERE INDEED exhumed. Is that correct?

 

Absolutely ... and this is the same place that the GT40 that Jim was talking about came from. The barn where all these cars were stored burnt down ... and then the remains were bulldosed into the ground.

Amazingly 2 cars have 'driven' out of the ashes. Not sure about the GT40 being more than the chassis tag, but this Alfa atleast has original major chassis and suspension parts. Obviously the rest was remade.

Pete

 

Then step up to the plate and save this one!
Public Auction, go ahead and bid

There are needs to sacrafice a few, so the strong can survive.


Tom Shaughnessy
Over 15 years servicing the Ferrari Community



BTW: read the recent cover story Jul/AUG Cavallino
article on 0351 eu My 250 Europa, no fly by night here.

This isn't Corvette land, not even close.
Poor comparison.