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Daytona Koni Details

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by murphyrg1, Nov 16, 2021.

  1. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    Interesting.

    I've added your raw JPEG to my earlier composite pic:
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    I don't see any Koni decals on the shock.

    Do you recall whether they were "wings"?
     
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  3. readplays

    readplays Formula 3

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    Sounds like Rosso Chiaro to me. :p
     
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  4. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    For what it's worth, I don't recall any decal... :confused:
    ... but will look into my photo archives when I get a chance.

    OTOH, I do have two paint samples and related references marked "Koni shocks", but won't (at this time) share details of either here. Sorry.
     
  5. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    Interesting connection to make.

    As it turns out, not so much Chiaro, as Dino:
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    Cloudy here today, so could not get a shot in full sun, but as you can see, there is an argument that Rosso Dino is a candidate that has some merit. Particularly as it has more of an orange-cast under indoor lighting. If one had a source of a good Rosso Dino formulation, it would be worth trying if you wanted to stay toward the orange-direction of the possibilities.

    Since I can anticipate some "your Rosso Chiaro is way too dark" comments, I included two shots of my Chiaro car under different lighting conditions, so that folks could see that Chiaro can vary a lot in different photos.
     
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  6. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    the problem with orig koni pix 50 yrs simce manufacture is that the paint becomes more brownish with aging. hence the redder appearance.
     
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  8. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    Well, generally things don't spontaneously change color unless subjected to some sort of energy, typically either heat, or light. The 50 year old Koni that I have does not show much evidence of being exposed much to either of these.

    Of course, the pigments might just be unusually unstable (from a chemical standpoint), but if that is the case, then there is no way to verify it, because all truly original shocks would now all be the wrong color... :)

    Personally, I think manufactures care much less about the colors of the paints they use than folks think, and they certainly update their colors all the time to "evolve with the times". So the fact that modern Konis are orange does not really say much about the state of things 50 years ago. And if Koni themselves have spent a long time rebuilding vintage shocks with modern colors, then things get really muddled.

    At the end of the day, photos are not reliable color indicators, and the memories of people "who where there" are pretty unreliable as well.

    So while actual paint samples are not necessarily perfect, I think they are the best that we've got.

    At the very least they give an indicator of what true "time capsule" car would look like.
     
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  9. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Have you ever had an opportunity to observe and really pay attention to, let's say, 5-10 Daytona's, all red and according to their respective owners, all or majority being "Rosso Chiaro" lined up next to each other at a concours or a show of some sort, only to realize most or none actually color match each other ? ;):rolleyes:
     
  10. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    im sure someone on a porsche forum would have the exact paint code considering how anal they are. forget about pix on a website.
     
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  11. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    Oh, absolutely... :)

    The only reason that I say that my car is Chiaro, is because it is pretty close the the paint sample that I've got.

    Now I admit that paint samples may not be definitive, but like I said in my previous message, I think they are more reliable that pictures or memory... ;)
     
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  13. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran

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    best if somebody can send you an orig shock to color match.
     
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  14. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    #36 gcalex, Dec 18, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
    Well, paint-codes from 50 years ago are pretty meaningless; the pigments from those formulations just are not available any longer.

    Of the Porsche folks trying to match samples, the most credible conclusion (based on my surfing) is that RAL 3013 (if you want the evidence-supported color) or RAL 2002 (if you want something that won't totally offend folks who think the color should be "orange").

    But again, it is possible that the Koni shocks were not painted the same color as the Ferrari ones.
     
  15. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    this thread is reading more like a thought
    exercise than a practical solution to a problem.
     
  16. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    Well, like I said, I managed to get a hold of a GTC/4 shock that looks original; it's pretty close to RAL 3013.

    So why don't I just use that color on my car?

    I'm just not sure that I am willing to endure the "slings and arrows" of folks saying that if I had a time machine so that I could see the paint before it aged 50 years, I would have painted them orange... :)

    Kidding aside, I'm not saying that folks that go with some form of an orange are "doing it wrong"; frankly, I think folks should use whatever color they think looks good to them. I certainly totally get why one would use a color that would reduce the chances of some show judge giving one a hard time.

    I just think it is sort of interesting that there seems to be plenty of evidence that is contrary to the general assumption that Konis should be orange.
     
  17. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    In my mind, the solution was provided when that GTC/4 shock came out of the box.

    I agree that all the rest is a tangential discussion about the pitfalls of trying to figure-out colors when one does not have a sample that seems reliable.

    A potentially useful tangent, since I think that not that many folks have samples to go by...
     
  18. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    #40 John Vardanian, Dec 18, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2021
    Most people use this.

    john
     

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  19. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    Hi John,

    Many thanks for the concrete reference to a specific "rattle can"; I don't have convenient access to a "paint guy" to do custom matching, so ultimately, I need something that is more-or-less off the shelf.

    A visit to a couple of local car-parts places yielded two cans labeled "Chevy Orange-Red"; the Duplicolor DE1607 that you cite, and VHT SP119.

    I shot samples of both, and got the following (also adding a pic that I got from Performance Shocks for comparison):
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    To my eyes, the Duplicolor is not as vibrant a color as the Dino shock, or the Performance Shocks (PS) shock, or even the 2002. It is also a touch more orange than the 2002. It is an interesting choice of color, because it is not bright like the more modern Koni color, but still most folks would say it is definitely a kind of orange.

    Interestingly, the VHT is a tangibly different color; much more kindred to 3016 (though a bit lighter). And unlike the Duplicolor (or 2002) it never seems to "go orange" under any lighting conditions that I tried. The VHT is a better match to that 71 GTC/4 shock.

    The PS shocks look like they are likely painted something similar to the Dino shock; i.e., something a bit more orange than the 2002.
     
  20. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

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    You are welcome, Alex. Times like this I tend to pick the "prettier" one of the two. But, there needs to be a hint of orange.

    john
     
  21. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3
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    Hi Guys

    Only for information

    Daniel



    Suspension ̵ Centre is a company based near Amsterdam , as an official Koni service center we can refubish every original shock of this mark build since 1958.

    As many Ferari and Maserati cars built after 1963 were provided with the Koni Oem shock, we are having all the data to get every Koni build shock as they were new, or even better.

    All the shocks and springs leaving our company are powder coated, no paint. In most of the cases we make some technical improvements also, whitch are only inside the shock.


    Kurval NL
    Mark Holthuis
    Director
    +31 (0)252 676 080 / +31 (0)6 53 74 94 45
    Mark.Holthuis@kurval.nl

    Pondweg 15, 2153 PK Nieuw Vennep (NL)




     
  22. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Veteran

    Nov 1, 2003
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    once you decide on the color then you need to determine the scheen. it never ends
     

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