Daytona Master Cylinder

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by ag512bbi, Oct 9, 2017.

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  1. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Looking where I can buy a Master Cylinder for my Daytona. Any help will be appreciated.
    Thank you.
     
  2. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    You will be better off by having the existing cylinder sleeved and rebuilt. Seals are common ATE parts and most rebuilders can do the job.
     
  3. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    You are right. I've got that feedback from others also after I started this thread.
    Thank you.
     
  4. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Just out of curiosity, what prompted this need ?
    Being that the car is +/- 45 years old and unless the rest of the (brake) system has had a complete overhaul within last 10 or so years, problematic MC could just be a "tip of the iceberg" and it might be a good idea to consider servicing everything.
     
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  5. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Actually The brakes gradually and eventually locked up on me. The brake pedal stiffened up
    I'm not technical AT ALL (sorry)
    I pulled over, called a flatbed.
    By the time the flatbed came, the brakes did start loosening up a bit.
    Ferrari of Newport Beach will be sending it out to be overhauled.
     
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  6. TTR

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    Not an MC issue, per se. Just overhauling it will not likely solve the problem.
     
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  8. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Ooops, I misread your post. Likely "not" solve the problem?... Not Good. I know he mentioned something about the spring. I'll let you know when I get a better understanding of the explination.
     
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  9. TTR

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    So far, sounds like the dealership personnel may not have experience with these types of issues or the model, but I could be wrong.
    Then again, most "modern" car dealerships or their (younger?) "technicians" usually don't have much on older models, even if their own brand.
     
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  10. steve meltzer

    steve meltzer Formula Junior

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    if you suddenly needed more leg power to get the brakes into action, it could be that the brake booster has failed (common) and a (relatively ) easy fix or you've lost vacuum to the booster (I'd then expect some erratic idling and poor performance). A failed MC usually results in no brakes and the pedal goes to the floor, almost the opposite of the brakes "locking up" and the pedal stiffening. steve
     
  11. TTR

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    Armen,
    while above comment is addressing some brake related problems, very likely non of it is directly related to problem your car appear to be exhibiting.
     
  12. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    I totally get it. I really think I'm probably not explaining the technical aspect correctly. My Tech is probably one of the best in the country and VERY reputable. It's me that is the problem.
    OK, I'm gonna get to the bottom of this! I might even have to write it down.
    I know the car was idling for a LONG time (a good 15 minutes) (picking my daughter up from school). As I drove away finally, the brake pedal got harder and harder to press. The Brakes eventually locked up on me. As it cooled down it loosened up. By the time the flatbed unloaded the car at my warehouse, it rolled right off the Flatbed.
     
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  13. TTR

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    I admit I'm always interested to learn how or what others might diagnose as a cause of a problem and what actions or approach they might take to remedy what they discover.
     
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  15. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    Hey,
    I 100% understand and actually appreciate your input. I'm usually the type that if I have a problem, I just look at the bottom line, GET IT FIXED. But I should be more aware of the why and how.
    Thank you
     
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  16. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
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    You need a bit of free play in the adjustable rod. It may be that the heat is causing just enough expansion to apply the brakes. I am not a tech, but have experienced the above.
     
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  17. TTR

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    Well, thank you for asking.

    As for your first question, but I believe have. Maybe you can spare some of your time finding evidence confirming or contradicting my belief ?
    Some of course, due to privacy considerations, have been off-line, so they might be difficult for you to assess.

    As for the problem OP is dealing with, having diagnosed and resolved similar issue on few Daytonas over the years, I also believe I have a pretty good idea what the cause might be and how possibly solve it, but with all due respect to your inquiry and in case any one else wonders, I do make a living restoring and repairing vintage vehicles and their components and like many professionals in this field or in most other fields, I don't care to offer my hard earned experience without some compensation, even if only in "sense of".
    Probably same reason why you don't see too many other "professionals" here either.

    Of course when I first dabbled into the brave new world of internet, I (mistakenly?) attempted to offer fair amount of "professional" advise, only to find out most got drowned by nonsense from many with little or no REAL EXPERIENCE. So I all but gave up on it.

    While it may not appear very "noble" approach, I believe offering or suggesting a direct solution to a problem may not actually teach "them" anything. I prefer to offer suggestions leading to analytical thinking of why, what, etc. of the cause, diagnosing and solving the problem. That's how I've learned and hopefully continue learning, even here and/or from possible mistakes of others, especially when I know there's still a lot I don't know. Yet, I've had apprentices whom couple have even gone to become occupational teachers in the fields related to my business, go figure.

    Of course inter web experts can be puzzled by all this, especially when I don't have webpages, instagrams, face books, etc. for proof of my "experience" (or existence ?).
    Some might even find it odd my business telephone number which I've had nearly 30 years is still unlisted.

    What about you ? Would you finally care to share us about your real experiences ? Or if you're like me and wish to keep some details of your career more private and protect your clientele from any unnecessary internet nonsense, I'll be happy to discuss this off-line at your convenience, but only if you can promise to keep what I share with you confidential.
     
  18. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Timo: Excellent post. Been there, done that. I also tend to not answer questions on the internet as much as I used to. Too much "nonsense".
     
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  19. TTR

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    Thank you, Sir !
     
  20. Ferrari 360 CS

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    I bit rich I think especially considering your history on this forum.

    Timo has actually been extremely helpful when I was going through a Daytona restoration and his advice and feedback in terms of detail was invaluable at getting the car to the standard I wanted it to be. His experience with Daytona's is I feel an asset to this forum.
     
  21. TTR

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    +1
    Thank you, Jacques !
     
  22. swift53

    swift53 F1 Rookie
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    Timo has always been extremely generous with his vast knowledge and common sense.

    Some of us really appreciate it. Thank you Timo!

    Regards, Alberto
     
  23. TTR

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    Thank you Alberto.
    While I do appreciate the compliments from all you gentlemen, I too admittedly at times veer off topics, so let us all from now on try focus on issues of thread titles.
     
  24. swift53

    swift53 F1 Rookie
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    I suppose sometime we shall hear the cause and effect, results, of the OP.

    Regards, Alberto
     
  25. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula Junior
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    Ag512BBi's problem is most probably caused by the master cylinder seals swelling over time (or due to heat from prolonged idling) and closing off the compensation port. This then does not allow fluid to flow back to the reservoir when the brakes are released. As a result, the brake pedal gets "higher and firmer" and eventually the brakes start dragging and eventually lock on. A cylinder sleeve and rebuild should fix it.
     
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  26. TTR

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    Patience Grass Hopper.

    While Dykes proposal for cause/cure sounds solid, I too am curious to find out if that's all it takes and for the sake of OP's checkbook, I hope he's correct.

    As previously mentioned, I've dealt with this type of problem on few Daytonas before, including the very first I one I worked on many moons ago and my (limited) experience has shown cause/cure being more complex than just MC, but without knowing more details which I alluded to in my first reply, specifically condition or service records of all other related components on this particular car, I'll refrain offering solutions.
     
  27. DWR46

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    Timo: Another possibility, which I have seen on Daytonas is internally collapsing flex lines to the wheels. Similar symptoms.
     

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