Hi all, I'm thinking about buying a Daytona shortly, not for investment, but to own and drive. I'd obviously get any car properly checked out by a specialist before I bought it, but what are the key areas to check on the car? What's the best way to find out any background on the car, any specialists on here? Many thanks!
Rust on chassis and body, accident damage, mechanical condition and bodged repairs. Daytonas are very expensive to rebuild. Get it checked out by a Ferrari expert. You might want to get in touch with FChat member Telaio.
Well, just like with any 45+ year old car, EVERYTHING, but if realistically considering a driver quality example, it would be advisable to make sure at least ALL chassis (brakes, steering, suspension) & drive train mechanical components have any and all (recent) rebuild and/or service records available. Lack of proper documentation along with aforementioned (and often covered/hidden or undetected) collision and corrosion issues, more common to vintage Ferraris than many realize, should reflect the value BEFORE pulling the trigger. Many less than stellar examples appear to be out there and often the first time vintage buyers seem to end up facing (after the fact) the disappointing reality that accompany them. Don't be in a hurry or taken by "fresh paint & upholstery" or "low miles", which means nothing and maybe even worse without proper (recent) service documentation, especially if the car is truly intended to be enjoyed by driving. Keep in mind that most of Daytonas are now over 45 year old (used) cars with numerous ownerships and "restorations(?)", some better than others and deferred maintenance on any can easily become a black hole swallowing boat loads of $s/£s/€s.
I agree with Timo and I'll add a bit of my own viewpoint. I would look at the most expensive items in the car to repair. The engine and the transaxle, imHo. I would look at engine health and synchro health in the transaxle. The parts that are most expensive or hard to find, are the ones that are specifically for the Daytona. Lots of mechanical parts are common throughout many models, so are usually less expensive and easier to locate. Things like (metal) trim are harder to source. As Timo said, it is a 45 year old used car. There will always be little things to fix or improve. Once sorted, these cars are tough and reliable. I track mine in addition to taking it on 500 mile trips without drama. I do most of my own work, fixing all the little things. It helps if you are able to do some or all the work yourself. For me, I don't mind fixing mechanical maladies and trim, but really don't like fixing rust......For myself, I would find one with as little rust as possible. Bill
As other have said. Get one thats had the work done correctly. It takes a lot of time and money to sort out a Daytona. Mine took 5 years!
Thanks all, I've got a fair bit of experience with classics if not classic Ferrari. I've got a fully equipped workshop and do my own restorations subbing specialists in for certain work, currently doing a 300 SEL 6.3, don't get me started on rust!!! I've got a small collection of classics and been restoring for over 20 years. I guess I was looking for more Ferrari/Daytona specific information and some of the info above is great so thanks. Yes, I'm very wary about bodged repairs, I've even seen a Daytona myself bodged with chicken wire, paper and filler! Have to remember at some points these cars weren't worth the money they are now eh. Looks like the major mechanical parts at the key areas to look at, particularly engine health. I'll make sure I get that checked out. Price also seems to be a bit of concern at the moment, I see four got passed in recently at Arizona, yet the prices seems to range from £500k-£700k here in the UK. A couple in the US reached $540k and were passed in. Crikey I was offered one for £150k a few years ago, lol, days long gone unfortunately for me!
Lagerlout and all. I follow Daytonas and owned a "conversion" for fifteen years. It was in great shape, new engine, rebuilt tranny, new paint. About a year ago, I simply got tired of it, was offered what now seems like a great price and sold it. Two things for Mr Lagerlout: 1. Over time, I spent lots of money resulting in one that "right." For example, I spent $40,000 getting mine repainted. .Also, you need a great mechanic with specific Daytona experience. I have one , here in North Carolina who has worked on my cars for 25 years. There are many, many bad ones out there. From what you've indicated you would do your own bodywork, so I really can't address this. 2. I sense a great softening of the market, nothing impirical except for Ferrari Market Letter, which I do not trust, nor like But.....For example, I think I just saw two daytona's sold at Barrett Jackson.....one for less that $500 and another conversion", cut car for $143,000.....unbelievable and I don't know particulars yet, but all my Ferrari buddies sense this softening......IN fact, if anyone knows specifics about sales, I would be interested. BJ's web site is difficult. Just my thoughts Chuck Grantham
It's definitely a "buyers market" for Daytona coupe's currently, L or RHD, Euro or US-spec. My family has owned two RHD coupe's for several years; a detailed inspection of the transaxle is a must, along with checks for body and chassis corrosion..the boot floor is a regular spot and the channel at the top of the "B post", means water can accumulate and rust from within. Interior is straightforward to restore, parts are available, but sometimes expensive. Bodywork is expensive to correct Suggest a read of Grant's mammoth restoration project..so many tips, and great advice Also tipo history/notes on www.daytonaregistry.com PM me if you need any more. Edward
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/183467-holey-daytona.html
Just because they're now valued higher than, let's say five years ago, doesn't mean conditions of all examples have improved accordingly. Beside the basic compression, leak-down, oil pressure, coolant/oil temps, etc tests, another very important thing to find out is if the OE exhaust valves have been replaced (and properly documented for such). If not, I would highly recommend getting this done immediately if purchased and before putting the car to use. Perhaps some of these passed offerings at auctions, both recent and in the past, were less than stellar examples I alluded to earlier. Based on personal observations, I've always believed that majority of all types of cars offered and sold at auctions would not receive anywhere near the (alleged) bids or sell at all if allowed to be scrutinized with PPIs, test drives, etc. as in private treaty sales. I'd also like to add that just because the car is advertised "Award" or "Platinum winner" doesn't necessarily mean it's in great condition, well done or even anywhere near correct. Also, another interesting marketing gimmick seem to be the "original tool kit", which as a lifelong vintage car enthusiast & owner, I think should be absolutely last thing to consider if/when buying a car, especially one intended for driving. I find it somewhat odd that some can spend $15K-$25K or more on tools they'll never need or use rather than get their cars seriously past due brake, steering and/or suspension systems properly overhauled. Then again, what do I know, since I've been able to rack up only couple of hundred thousand miles in past 4 decades driving vintage cars of all types, some even occasionally as daily drivers and many with several thousand mile long single occasion road trips on two continents without organized event planning, support crews or - vehicles.
None of the Daytona's offered in the Arizona auctions sold. The only example at Barrett Jackson was s/n 13941, a tired Straman conversion with many incorrect details(no sale); I don't know what you are referring to by "cut car for $143,000" I didn't see anything like that. McBurnie replica perhaps? The plexiglass example at Gooding s/n 13231 was the best of the bunch IMO.
Speaking as a former owner, and I rue the day I sold mine every day, if you can afford it, buy it. They are amazing cars!!! I was fortunate to buy mine from the original owner in 1995. Find an expert in your area and buy a good one. You will not regret it.
+1 Although I don't like to use word "expert" since I've always, right or wrong, associated it with those whose knowledge seem to be based on what they've learned from books, magazines or interwebs but usually tend to have little or no firsthand or practical experience.
Cheers, guys. Lots of really useful advice, thanks. There's a couple of cars I'm interested in at the moment, obviously can't tell a lot from the photos. I've seen the first car at the official dealer, and it looks a cracker but would need to give it a proper PPI. Yet to see the one at JD classics. Obviously can't tell a lot from the pictures. First car has has 11 owners (!) and second one 4. Used 1973 FERRARI Daytona 365 GTB/4 for sale in Swindon | Pistonheads Ferrari 365 GTB/4 RHD Daytona - JD Classics
Second car, minor things wrong I can see from the photos:- The bonnet does looks to need adjustment Wrong steering wheel Wrong foot well heal pad passenger side, [ these are very hard to find although a repo LHD set would fit ok just for this pad as its the same shape I think]. I don't know why they would not rebuild the brake booster when the engine was rebuilt? Boot lid may not fit too well [ might be the photo ] If you want to concours which I guess you don't, 2 wrong badges on the boot lid, leather dash, compass on the center console I think it has the wrong battery tie down clamp, 73 cars had a frame around the top not a cross beam. 1 car Wrong steering wheel [ this is a repo of the wrong style for a 73] Carpet heal mats missing or they might just be covered up Dash looks worn? Not much else I can see other than you need some sticker for the exhaust. Not sure I like blue cars though! LOL
Half a million bucks plus 5 % vat is a lot less than £ 700 000 if you can do LHD then again both cars linked should be priced near the top of the market
Not really. RHD cars are much rarer so they will command more of a premium, the same goes for when you try to sell, a RHD car will sell much better in a RHD market and for more money than a LHD car.
Yes, it's the US pricing that's concerning me a bit as it's indicating a downward trend whereas the prices being asked for, I stress asked for, in the UK still seem pretty strong. Going to have to keep a keen watch on the next couple of sales I think. RHD cars certainly have a premium here don't they, there's always a big discrepancy on modern stuff as well. I have a couple of LHD cars and I'd always sell them on the continent if I was going to as they'd simply make more money. Greyboxer, assume you're talking about importing? It's going to be more than 5% isn't it, would be subject to full VAT & import duties so would total about 30% on top? Last time I imported a car from the US that's about what it cost me from memory.
What's wrong with blue cars?? Seriously, what should the steering wheel look like? As for the dash, it does look a little odd, it actually either looks faded, or it's grey? Did they come with grey dashboards? The car spent some time in Australia so it could potentially be faded. I believe O'rourke did the retrim but not sure the dash was done looking at it. Everything is in lovely condition and the colours on the photos aren't right. The carpets for example are much darker and not so in your face, the blue of the car is also much paler. Bit smitten with this one!
European origin = no duty & greater than 50 yr old = 5 % vat (sorry this doesn't really apply yet to Daytonas does it.......)
No I don't think he did the dash, . It should be what’s known as mouse fur by most, it should be a dark grey almost black. Rorky is the best to ask about this. It did have black seats before the re-trim A 73 MOMO wheel should look like this with no holes in the spokes and MOMO on the front of the bottom spoke. 72 wheel should have holes in the spokes and MOMO on the front pic 73 at the left 72 at the right. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Agree, Daytona are among the best F cars you can get for real driving. Enough torque, lot of power, 2 seater, bullet proof engine and transmission, very good brakes compared to 275..and while expensive, not the same feeling as driving a SWB or an LM on the road and leaving it outside while having lunch,,,yes I did it!! I personally would go for a plexiglass car, because this is the real original design of Leonardo Fioraventi, as discussed with him during the dinner during the 40th anniversary tour of the Daytona organized by the factory..some times ago. When I sold it, I missed it and got a Group4,, well this is a different animal with 486bhp...still the feeling of unlimited power and stability is the same, just enhanced ( noise too with open exhaust..). Get the best you can find, working on them as on any classic car, is expensive, from transaxle, to engine rebuild to suspension to bodywork and interior. Take your time, kiss many frogs 🐸 and try to find an unusual color, outside resale red and yellow...and enjoy it.
I disagree. While RHD is much rarer than LHD the worldwide pool of buyers for RHD is also much smaller so should balance out the premium. Factor in the current weak pound attracting European and American buyers and I reckon a LHD Daytona currently in the UK would sell more easily than a RHD one.
Historically speaking Matt, RHD Daytona's have been more expensive than LHD cars, like for like condition wise, [ Well at least they have in the last 10 years while I have been keeping an eye on them]. The week pound may be here to stay but who knows?
