News

Daytona tach angle drive

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by bighitter2, Jun 3, 2018.

  1. Must see the interview we did with Piero Ferrari in Maranello! https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/news/297
  1. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    400
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    Thanks John, looking my pic it looks like i am missing something,Chuck
     
  2. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,576
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    I thought I had rounded the edges like Brian suggested, but still I damaged the first seal during installation. Then I tried this trick and it worked perfectly.

    john

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  3. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    1,712
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    Nice tool! It will keep the seal from getting damaged without having to round the corners on the shaft.
     
  4. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,576
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Thanks, and thanks for the advice.

    john
     
  5. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    400
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    I see "Mr Fiat" has these available has anyone used one?
     

    Attached Files:

  6. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,576
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Chuck, this doesn't look like your angle drive. It may not be a straight up replacement.

    john
     
  7. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    400
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    John,this one has a grease fitting ( not a bad idea) but it appears it also has a "sleeve" that the cable would fit into that the 2 originals i have don't have..i don't know if mine are missing this..does anyone have a few pics of an original Daytona tach angle drive off the car?
     
  8. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,576
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Chuck, it's hard to tell from the pictures if the Mr. Fiat item would work on your Daytona. It looks like what goes on my motor (3.0 litre). But it might work on yours too. Seems to me if you were to use this you would also need the corresponding Part #5 in the diagram. Aside from it physically fitting, you would have to be sure that the turns ratios of the two angle drives are the same. Why do you need a new unit, can't yours be repaired?

    john
     
  9. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    1,712
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    I would be very wary upon purchasing anything from Mr. Fiat. They do not have the best reputation. They don't have the parts in stock and only order them from another vendor in Italy/Europe once you have placed your order.
    That tach drive from from doesn't look anything like an original Daytona drive. The camshafts in the Daytona and 275GTB 4cam rotate in opposite direction from the regular 2 cam Ferrari Columbo motor (250/275 2Cam/330) and require a different tach drive. The tach drives for the Daytona/275 4Cam are very rare, difficult to find and expensive if you do find one. I highly doubt that Mr.Fiat has Daytona drives. What is wrong with your original drives? You say that they leak, but as we have discussed the drive is not supposed to seal oil. It is supposed to be greased for life and not have oil going through it.
    If your drives spin, have good gear mesh with no stiff spots then they are probably fine. I even use an hand grease gun with a needle fitting to lube these drives.
     
    TTR likes this.
  10. Dogdish

    Dogdish Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 27, 2005
    342
    Denver
    I think he gets them from Roelofs in Europe. They make both the tach and speedo drives.
     
    turbo-joe likes this.
  11. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    1,548
    Riverside, CA
    Full Name:
    Timo
    #36 TTR, Jul 11, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
    Chuck, while many here has attempted to advise you on this, it seems the subject has become more confusing than it needed to be and although I had promised myself not to add anything further to this confusion, I'll try one more time and try keeping it as clear and simple as I can, so it might help if, for now, you ignore most(*) what has been posted before.

    Here is a (my) picture of an actual 365GTB/4 ("Daytona") right side distributor base with tachometer angle drive and its (brass) adapter.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    In this photo you'll see a strip of light green masking tape placed on the (cast aluminum) distributor base and to the right of that strip you'll see a black lip-seal.
    There should be a lip-seal like that inside the distributor base approximately where the light green masking tape is located.
    If that lip-seal inside the distributor base is not broken/leaking or missing, there should be no engine oil coming in contact with the tachometer angle drive or its (brass) adapter.

    In your case, it is very likely that the lip-seal inside the distributor base is either broken/leaking or missing.

    To replace that seal, you need to dismount the right side distributor with its base, tachometer drive and its (brass) adapter as an assembly from the engine. (You might want to record the rotor position for ease of re-installation without having to retime the ignition)
    Then, if they haven't been previously removed already, you need to remove the tachometer angle drive and its adapter.
    Then, you need to remove the horizontal small shaft inside the distributor base. This shaft is the one driven by the right side exhaust cam and it drives the vertical shaft going up to the distributor as well as the tachometer angle drive.
    Once all these have been removed, you should be able to see and access the lip-seal inside the distributor to replace it.

    (*) Although I personally haven't experienced any problems with straightforward replacement of these, Brian and John have offered some helpfull technical advise for preventing potential installation failures and I would recommend following those, especially the filing of the shaft as Brian suggested.

    Once the new lip-seal and the horizontal distributor base shaft have been (successfully) installed, you reassemble rest and remount the distributor assembly to the engine.

    If the oil leak still persist in the same area, it likely means that something in the the lip-seal replacement failed and needs to be done again with more carefully.

    I hope this helps you to get it sorted, but if you need further advise, you can contact me directly.

    P.S. Like Brian, I would recommend caution if/when buying anything from some of these online based parts vendors. In my experience, many of them seem to have no idea about the parts or the cars they sell them for. They often seem to ust rely on information their supplier provide and these suppliers may be just another layer in supply chain and perhaps just as ignorant.
     
    Dogdish likes this.
  12. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,576
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Timo, I think you are forgetting that we are having fun here in just talking and learning, and your article would be just as informative without the pompous opening.

    john
     
  13. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    1,712
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    Also note that the fiber washer that goes between the distributor angle drive housing and the brass tach drive adapter is a certain thickness (1.00mm). When it was first installed a groove was machined in the tach angle drive so that there is clearance for the clamp bolt that goes through the brass tach drive adapter, and the tach drive is oriented by this groove. If you replace this fiber washer with one that has a different thickness, then the hole for the clamp bolt will be in a different location and this will dictate the position of the tach drive. This is why I always reuse the original fiber washer. If you use a different thickness fiber washer, then you will need to machine a new groove in the tach drive so that it will be oriented in the correct position.
     
  14. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,576
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Brian, what kind of greasing nozzle fits that grease fitting? I hand packed mine when I had it apart. Though, it seems like it should be lubricated with heavier gear oil rather than grease.

    john

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    1,712
    Berkeley, CA
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    I use a small hand held grease gun that just has a pointed tip to depress the ball in the fitting and inject grease into the drive. Good quality synthetic grease works fine. Any kind of gear oil is going to run out of the drive, as there are no seals to keep it in.
     
  16. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    2,576
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    Got it, thanks.

    john
     
  17. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    400
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    Thank you Motob, you are not the only one to make this suggestion..advise taken,Chuck
     
  18. bighitter2

    bighitter2 Formula Junior

    May 7, 2005
    400
    virginia usa
    Full Name:
    chuck coli
    Timo,Thank You for taking the Time and Effort to clarify i have forwarded to Rand( who is working on the Daytona) Chuck
     

Share This Page