Daytona Tyres

235F
265R ( 9" wheels)
40PSI

Drive it, hard, really hard. Avon, the best, they even look the part, like GY blue streaks, almost...

Regards, Alberto

 

Oo; I would say it depends what you want out of the tyre. for what its worth here are my thoughts.

If you scroll down on this web page it has the dimensions for the CR6ZZ
https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/vintage-tyres/avon-cr6zz/15.html

Same here with the XWX
https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/michelin-classic-tyres/xwx.html

My first thought is why over tyre the car? i think you will find it less pleasant to drive on the road by fitting larger tyres. OE was 215/70VR15 front and rear. 225/70VR15 was a later thing, but they did only go up 10mm. by the sounds of your post you do sound like you do have some understanding of this, but the basic issue is that when you have more grip, you have a more dramatic step from grip to starting to drift a little. driving it on the throttle on the edge becomes more difficult.

More grip puts greater load on all your components. they therefore wear considerably faster.

The XWX looks great.

The CR6ZZ looks the correct shape, with the rounded shoulders, which is why they do handle so well, but the tread looks nothing like a histroic tyre.

The CR6ZZ is after all racing rubber so will deteriorate differently (that is a cagey description isn't it).

Again part of the reason the CR6ZZ handles so well is because it has a strong carcass, which again has the inevitable subtle derogatory effect as a road tyre.

Why change from XWX? they are perfect, original, look good and actually make the correct sizes. Does your car not handle beautifully on XWX?

If you are going racing on a perfectly smooth race track where lap times actually count, then why not go CR6ZZ. but as a road car you will just make it a less pleasant car to drive, on a more expensive tyre that won't last as long.

The bigger CR6ZZ will give shorter stopping distances in a straight line. It will give less straight line wheel spin. but at the expense of progressive handling. I poersonally think wheel spins are cool, and i dont think you are suffering locking up you wheels under braking are you?


IMPORTANT

Those tyre sizes should not be fitted with innertubes!

Wire wheels should be fitted with innertubes.


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I realise this letter is just from Pirelli, but Michelin say the same and i'm sure all the other manufacturers would to. In that you shouldn't run tubes in anything lower than 70% profile, of course nobody makes inner tubes to fit those tyre sizes.

Now i am aware that a lot of people fit these tyres with inner tubes, specially on the race track, (where they are not on for long, and do not have to worry about what their insurance company might think). We have had issues with customers that have fitted innertubes in low profile tyres. (We didn't fit them). Now to get really boring; the concern is that if you do have an issue on the road and someone else is involved, then you might foind yourself in trouble.


The CR6ZZ are great tyres. Personally i wouldn't fit them on a road car, however i hope my coments have helped raise a few issues to consider while making the decision.

Worth considering that any dissatisfaction you may feel you have toward the current XWX you have on the car could be because they are old rubber?

 

Alberto, I'd say using your "a few 100's miles x year" analogy, choosing one tire over another based on their performance or technicalities will also be a moot point.
Now, if you offer choice comparisons based on experiences with a few 1000's miles x year and in all road/weather conditions ...

Besides, I would expect a "driver"(?) like you to replace tires long before they become "8 years"(?) old, even if they've seen less than 100 miles of road use.

 

You are right Timo, But my 100's (OK 999) miles per year, are equivalent to many more miles, as my driving
is hardly your commonplace "driving" as say someone with a Boano, my miles are hard driven with full 'quasi' limits explored.
7-8 years old, is for the truck, or something mundane, my 'regular norm' is 5-6 years tops, as by then anyhow they are way below the 'penny'gauge.
The ZZ's barely make it to 4K miles, whilst driven hard, and not in a straight line.
I drive in sun, rain, crappy Calif. roads, cars are meant to get wet, and I do rather enjoy it, unlike many, that if a 'slight drizzle appears, in goes the car.

We often see cars for sale with the clear and ever present: "never driven in the rain" ...must be made of soap...or sugar

Regards Alberto

 

8 years old is definitely not ideal, you are getting close to the point where at 10 years old they a definately goosed. and i beleive you are in California, so they have experienced heat.

Yep, i would agree that the XWX is not the quietest tyre out there. i tink this will be slightly increased by age. simply rev the car more or turn up the stereo.

looking skinny on the rim is so vintage Ferrari. It is very Ferrari to have a rear tyre fitted on a rim that is an inch wider than the standard rim recomendations. That is cool. It is so cool in Germany Michelin had to supply a special letter for the TUV about fitting a 225/70R15 XWX on a 9" rim.

the odd chirup and a bit of wheelspin is also very cool. again this is enhanced by the age of the tyres, but getting rid of that is just going to load everything up more. expect your transmission to not last as long.

It does sound like you intend to drive it hard, which of course is again cool, and the CR6ZZ is going to give you loads more grip, which isnt really right, but i think the thing is if grip is what you like you wont be satisfied without that extra size and racing rubber.

Personally i would give a fresh set of XWX a go, because otherwise you will never know. All the differences i described earlier are subtle differences, under no circumstances do i mean to give the impression that the CR6ZZ is a bad tyre. I personally know i would enjoy the car more on XWX, However it does seem like you are chasing the ultimate grip and i kind of also think you won't be happy untill you have tried the XWX, but that isn't what i would do

What about the inner tube thing? are you definately on wheels that are built to be run tubeless?

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic-tyre-inner-tubes.html

 

Not that far from me then in Bawtry. I seem to spend a lot of my time driving down the A46 to Leicester en route to somewhere. But I'm usually either in a van or something pre war.

It does sound like the tyres have been well looked after, however at 8 yeards old, they won't be performing at their best. Age might make them a teeny-weeny bit noisier, but negliagable. I just don't think noise was a consideration when making the XWX. (amusingly a the time a big part of Michelins advertising budget was haviong them feature on a Silver Cloud on James Bond a View to a kill. A Cloud should have quiet tyres, yet in the film it was fitted with the wrong size noisy tyres. Hmm maybe it is only me that looks at films, fascinated by the tyre details. )

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classic/a-view-to-an-xwx.html

I might also say that i think quietness wasnt that big considersation when making the Daytona. I don't think i remeber havinf a Ferrari customer consdiering tyre noise before now. However that doesn't mean it isn't an issue. I mean if the tyres are so noisey you cant hear the engine, that would be a disaster.

So there are a few issues with the tubeless thingy. However to simplify in my mind only if you have a tubeless tyre fitted to a wheel that was built to be used with out inner tubes; only under that situation should you run tubeless. which of couirse with modern cars that is always the case. However with old cars it is not, because of the desire to fit (often cheap) tyres with an inappropriate carcas shape and structure for the car.

You need to fit inner tubes if:-

• Your tyre is a tube type tyre.
• Your wheel is designed to be a tube type wheel. (ie wire wheel, or wheel without a safety rib.)

I think looking at these pperiod fitment guides:

• Dino is tubeless
• Daytona needs inner tubes.

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For what it is worth, the Daytona parts manual does not show tubes for the tires.

 

Only if the wire wheels were not sealed, then tubes on Daytona.

Regards, Alberto

 

i think the xwx sidewall says tubeless.

 

the factory never installed tubes w the cromos. i think they would have consulted w michelin.
and if there were a problem i believe ferrari would have sent out a bulletin.

 

this rim has no humb - so you need a tube in the tire

 

that looks like a bolt in valve not in inner tube

 

wire wheels were never sealed back in the day wire wheels were never run tubeless.

we now refuse to fit the modern tubless wire wheel without an inner tube because we have witnessed too many failures. it is not an engineering solution, in my mind it is a bodge.

this is a tubeless wire wheel



do you want that on your car?

do you want a customer in a DB5 on the side of the road with 2 flat XWX tyres, ringing up and shouting at you, under the assumption that it is the tyres that have failed not the shonky wheels.

Do you want a very famous customer to buy 2 e-type Jags for his daughters, to unveil them and find 3 flat tyres!

no thank you. fit tubes and sleep at night.

 

That means an XWX can be run tubeless on a wheel that is suited to being fitted without an innertube.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/michelin-classic-tyres/xwx.html

both the wheel and tyre need to be tubeless to work. any XWX can be fitted with an inner tube when being fitted on a tube type wheel, becuase they dont make an XWX that is lower than 70%

 

This is what Michelin say in 1973

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So if it has the hump then it is a tubeless wheel - that is relatively easy.

There were for a very short period cars running tubless before the safety hump was developed. However they soon developed the safety hump.

But it is pretty cleas that although the tyres Michelin make that were OIE on your car can be run tubless, all the evidence, including Michelin the manufacturer are saying fit inner tubes.

fit innertubes

Don't have an accident and then have the insurance company say " we aren't gonna cough up becuase you were too tight fisted to not fit an innertube."

Don't be the guy stood on the side of the road with a flat tyre because you didn't fit an inner tube. it always rains when you have a puncture. oh yes fit Michelin inner tubes too.

https://www.borrani.com/inner-tubes.html

 

Getting a flat on a 'tube' tyre is like a blow out. Instant and scary.
I would avoid tubes on a Ferrari that does 150+(Miles) at all costs.

Regards, Alberto

 

Getting a flat because you are not fitting tubes in a wheel that needs innertubes is just asking for trouble.

Getting a flat with an inner tube is not always instant and scary. It is predominetly the same as a normal flat tyre, people usually notice before it becomes an issue.

A none tubeless wheel without the safety hump, you run the risk of pushing the tyre off the bead seat under cornering forces if your tyre pressure is a little low. That is like a blow out and just not funny.

These cars run inner tubes, they also don't have anti lock brakes, air bags, crumple zones, etc

The only advantages i know of not having an inner tube are:
weight.
possible heat build up.
if you get a slow puncture, if you are numb enough not to notice before it gets really low, it could pull the valve stem off under braking or acceleration. However if you are on a tube type wheel without the safety hump and no tube, the same thing can happen, with the extra danger of the tyre moving on the bead under cornering forces. an inner tube gives a geat deal more support againt this.

Just fit tubes. And if you feel the car seems a little wandery, don't jump on the anchors, slow down slowly and check it.