I "should" be able to take a position in this heated debate in a week or two ? I already have the mud. LOL
"In a typical programme,the dull grey Boxer would slip out of the big, green electric gates at Maranello to begin a 12 hour cycle.The first 4 hours would be spent in the mountains south of Maranello howling through never ending bends at sustained high speed.The next 4 hours would be spent on the autostrada running as fast as possible and as often as possible. Finnally after a driver change the car would be taken to Fiorano Ferraris test track for another four hours.The first of the prototypes logged 30,000 miles on the road in a year("We always use the bumpiest roads we can find" said Dr.Belli, "to work the car as hard as possible");then the second prototype took over and suffered 25000 miles of torture. The test programme brought several changes, although the modifications over the original design were not as extensive as is common with such cars or as might well have been expected with such a radical new vehicle. Dr. Ing Belli says, "Our main concern, in the long run , became the transmission.As it happened the gearbox itself never gave us any serious problems , but because it was new we felt we had to be sceptical and doubly careful about its behaviour and durability.Thinking back the one serious problem we did encounter was the lubrication of the differential, and by the time the test programme was completed we had switched from the original alloy bearing for the pinion to a steel one. Their are also numerous pics of the 2 test mule Boxers and they are identical in appearance to the 365, other than slight changes such as a vertical distributor vs the horizontal mount they have in production.
The Berlinetta Boxer took over from the Daytona, achievement though it already was. And quite apart from the new configuration of the engine and the ability and performance of the Boxer relative to the outgoing Daytona, it was a milestone in Ferrari history, the classic front engined, rear drive layout was at last giving way to the mid-engine concept of the ultimate Ferrari road car, a road Ferrari without precedent. Magnificent though the Daytona was- and it is now regarded as one of the all time classics-Ferrari were under pressure to switch to a mid engine layout for their fastest car. Lamborghini had unveiled the dramatic Miura. With full justification it was a sensation , it took the ultra high performance, road going 2 seater sports car down a new road the end which is currently not in sight.For innovation and pprogress then , the Muira stole the limelight from Ferrari. This from the book Boxer Mel Nichols although the Miura was one of the first mid engine 2 seat road cars it was not the first which was the ATS in the early 60s designed from the famous "walkout" from former employees of Ferrari due to Enzos wife Laura going ballistic on everyone all the time.
Great quotes, Jeff. And on the substance, who knows. And more importantly, who cares. It is a great car. I love the essence of the "old" writing style -- you can imagine sitting in the driver's seat alongside the reporter as the car screams through the hills. Thanks for sharing. I'll look for Nichols' book. Philip
Steve B, what we need is for a stock 365GT4/BB owner to have his car dynoed to see how much rwhp it produces. I can only go by what a magazine writer put in the aricle I mentioned. I assume he was experienced in Ferraris from how the article was detailed.
Frank, Did the magazine perform a dyno test on the 365 Boxer? If not, how did they arrive at their conclusion? Given equal drag coefficients between two cars, top speed is a pretty good measure of relative horsepower. Since 365 Boxers have been tested at 175 mph, which is essentially equal to the Daytona's top speed, it is logical to assume that their power levels are similar. I have noticed over the years that British car magazines appear to contain quite a few factual errors. For instance, I have a 1996 issue of "Classic and Sports Car" which features a 512BB carbed Boxer. In the article, they mention that its replacement, the 512BBi lost an addtional 10 hp when it was fuel injected. I do not believe that is correct and I cannot find any source for such a claim, but there it is in a magazine and a reader might just assume it is true. It is my belief that the "peak" power outputs of all of the Boxer models are essentially the same, but occur at different engine speeds. The 365 needs to be revved to 7000 rpm and beyond to obtain its peak, but the 512s have their peak at a much more practical 6000 rpm. As such, the power of the 512s is much more accessible in every day driving and I would be willing to bet that a 512 could beat a 365 in any drag race. The 512 will also feel faster in most circumstances. Anyway, as I have said before, they are all great cars and I think we are lucky to have a choice among the models. Steve
Wouldn't top speed, and also acceleration, be a function of gearing as well as raw power? And, my understanding is that the 365BB had shorter gearing than the 512s, at least in the first three gears, thus giving it stronger acceleration. However, I am no expert on Boxers, just mentioning something I've read.
It is correct that the 365 Boxer has shorter overall gearing which is due to its higher numerical final drive ratio (3.75 vs. 3.21 for the 512s). However, that is offset by its lower torque so it is possible that the two cars may accelerate in a similar fashion. Michael Sheehan believes that the 365 Boxer has the fastest acceleration of all three models which he stated in his article in Sports Car Market. The 365 would definitely be tougher to get to speed from a standing start as it would need to launch at higher revs. Relative to the effect of gearing on top speed, I think that the top gear ratios of the cars in question are similar enough that the engine power is the determing factor in top speed. The overall gear ratio in 5th gear for the cars is as follows: 365 BB = 3.08, Daytona = 3.16, 512 BB = 2.94.
Do Boxers have any trunk space at all? I know there is a little space behind the seats, is there any space anywhere else?
There is a very small area under the front bonnet, above the spare tire. It is probably no more than one foot deep with length and width at maybe 3 feet.
I have the two piece Schedoni luggage for my Boxer and it will allow a couple to pack enough for a long 3-4 day weekend. It has one long rectangular piece that fits behind the seats that spans all the way across the car's width. It has a smaller oval shaped piece that fits in the swallow space above the spare tire cover.
Thats very subjective IMO Frank that amount of luggage will allow a couple a 3/4 day weekend, depends on the gal you are with if you will have any room for your stuff and she better pack light. Boxers owners are supposed to just bring a toothbrush and razor on a trip along with plenty of cash to buy whatever clothes or items needed at your destination.As someone else said fast Ferraris of the 50s,60s and early 70s were the commuter jets of the time in Europe for getting anywhere fast at a moments notice.
I sure hope there's enough room? My wife and I are driving the old Boxer down from Atlanta to the FFQC next month and have to be able to pack enough for 4 days and 3 nights icluding a tux and formal evening gown for Saturday nights' Black Tie affair.
I have a Ferrari book where an auto writer remarked, about the lack of storage space in the BB. "You are supposed to send a servant ahead in a Range Rover." I do not have the book here. I am at work. Anyone know the price of a 1980's Euro grey-market Range Rover ? It may be less $$ than Frank's luggage.
Does anyone ditch the space-saver spare and use that area as well? It sounds like the fitted luggage is a must for the Boxer!
If you remove the spare it will give you a decent bit of room, the space behind the seats is good enough for a duffel bag which is all I take when I go on a road trip, it has 2 long wide leather straps for holding down your items. The space is much larger in the Boxer than the 308/328 area which has no room at all as the seats are rubbing on the rear shelf panel almost.
On a road trip, I will not travel without a spare. While I do carry a can of fix-a-flat, if the hole in the tire is too big or the tire gets torn...what do you do then... you can't just buy a TRX tire at your local service station.
if you remove the the spare miniwheel out of the front, you would have enough room for a garment bag and then a little luggage in the back...but not behind the seats. Good luck...tell me if you were able to do it
If you remove the spare tire, you may end up needing that extra room for walking shoes and drinking water . Or at least a good book while you wait on the flat-bed. Coachi, you must not have the Boxer Schedoni luggage. Because, the long rectangular piece that fits behind the seats will hold a men's suit and several changes of casual cloths, shoes, ect.... The oval piece that fits over the spare tire cover holds as much as an average carry-on type size suitcase as well. IMHO, only a fool would take an extended road trip such as the 7 1/2 hour drive I'm doing to the FFCQ without a spare tire! Especially with a car such as a BB512i that uses tires as hard to find as TRXs are.
So, if, hypothetically of course, one were to be looking for a Boxer, any comments on trouble spots or things to check for?
Hi............ Check out the Buyer's Guide section at Ferrari-Talk and the attachment for considerations for Berlinetta Boxer buyers. Frank........23005 www.masiarz.net/bb_resource Image Unavailable, Please Login
There are many fools that carry a spare that is useless too..... I wish I had a dollar for every Ferrari I've serviced with flat, bald, damaged, wrong size tyre, wrong wheel altogether etc etc spares...... I'd suggest buying a spare front and rear or even full set of full size wheels and tyres, taking a can of foam with you everywhere for most things and then just Fed Ex or whoever over-nighting a spare from home if you ever need it......
Hi............. Best solution to the Boxer luggage storage problem: never carry a passenger. Place an overnight bag in the passenger footwell. Passengers tend to "flop around" and upset the dynamic weight distribution in any case. At times, they even want to listen to the radio......good grief !!!?!?! Frank.........23005 www.masiarz.net/bb_resource
