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Daytona Water Valves

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by Portenos, Sep 15, 2019.

  1. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    Can anyone share some light on the two water valves used in the Daytona, such as.
    Where can they be purchased?
    New old stock would be appreciated.
    Are there China reproductions being offered? ( I am not interested in reproductions)
    Can they be rebuilt?
    Does anyone have photos of what they look like?

    These are the water valves that are controlled from the dash using the up and down sliders, NOT the thumb screw type that are readily available.
    Any feed back will be well received.
    Ciao,
    FGM
    15689
     
  2. afwrench

    afwrench Formula Junior

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    I would try GT Car Parts or Parts Source.They are screwed together so I would think there is a chance they could be rebuilt. Might give a shout over at Tomyang.net.Everything vintage. Good luck,Mike
     
  3. Wheels1

    Wheels1 F1 Rookie
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    Try Ferrari, I bought new ones from them but it was 9 years ago!
     
  4. Portenos

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    Many thanks to all of you. I am currently in Modena so I will try a couple guys here tomorrow.
    Ciao,
    FGM
     
  5. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Original valves can be rebuilt/restored (I’ve done many), assuming they’re not horribly corroded/oxidized (often internally).
    Readily available reproduction replacements have so many incorrect details and features (for Daytona) it’s not even funny, but they can be made to work with severe external & internal corrective modifications.
     
  6. Portenos

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    Thank you TTR,
    I really do not like all this reproduction sH%#t on offer. I would much rather pay more and get original equipment.
    FGM
     
  7. malcolmb

    malcolmb Formula Junior
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    You should be able to get the real thing in Italy.
     
  8. Portenos

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    I found them in Modena. New at 60 Euro each so I bought 6.
    Thanks for all your combined assistance.
    Ciao,
    FGM
     
  9. TTR

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    Are they OEM design or aftermarket reproductions ?
    Care to share a picture ?
     
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  10. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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  11. TTR

    TTR Formula 3
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    Sorry to inform you, but that appears what I referred in my first reply as “Readily available reproduction replacements”.
    While they probably can be rigged up “as is”, they are far from appearing, fitting or working correctly on Daytona, but can be made so with (severe) modifications.
     
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  12. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    Can you tell me more about how to modify them?
    Are they really that bad? Is there anyone else who can weigh in on this.
    I will be returning to Modena and will visit another guy who might have "originals"
    Ciao,
    FGM
     
  13. pshoejberg

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  14. TTR

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    Well, few years ago I acquired a pair of these for a clients Daytona, hoping to avoid labor intensive rebuild/restoration of heavily oxidized used original valve, which I’ve done before (and since).

    I eventually discovered that just to make them fit and work correctly on a Daytona, they ended up needing more extensive modifications than Peter did on his, but to also make them appear correct was something requiring further mods and fabrication of additional bits & pieces not present on these aftermarket replacements (for comparison, see Bills pictures).

    The appearance factor, of course, could be easily overlooked since they aren’t very visible once installed in the car, but in the end, I realized the amount of effort/labor required to modify these aftermarket valves to look, fit & work correctly can easily exceed that of restoration of original ones.

    I’d also like to add that if you do find new “original” ones, might be a good idea to have them serviced prior to installation due to several decades worth of aging by now.
     
  15. TTR

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    Just wanted to clarify that with “new original ones” I meant NOS, which can be either (decades old, never used) New Old Stock or (decades old, never used) Nasty Old S#*t.
    Just because it’s claimed to be or marketed as former doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not also latter. ;)
     
  16. 4redude

    4redude Formula Junior

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    The rubber diaphrams are available at Rutlands.
     
  17. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

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    "We" had 4 or 5 Spyders, and at least 3 coupes, during a ten year period(2002-2012), while mostly in reasonable condition, and being a fabricating/prototyping machinist, repair was the natural course for us...
    This said, I looked into NOS parts, and was told by ex-Chinetti guys that: the "real" ones have been NLA since the "first bubble" in the late 1980's-which sucked up ALL of the old major, easy, stashes of NOS parts-FWIW...
     
  18. John Vardanian

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    The pot metal castings are generally the weak points. The thinner parts erode away, especially the lipped area that mates against the rubber diaphragm, it erodes and then the valve doesn't do what it is supposed to do, stop flow. You can try blasting the parts clean and then build up the eroded areas with two-part metal epoxy then shape it back to original--kind of like the way the dentist repairs a chipped tooth. I repaired my valve this way and it has held up for several years. If you are going to try this make sure to not blast with too abrasive of a media. Good luck.

    john
     
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  19. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    otherwise you have nothing anymore to fix

    what about 3 D printing?
     
  20. TTR

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    Been there, done that..., ....and then some. More than once, hence my initial interest for buying a pair of reproduction replacement valves years ago, but after experiencing the amount of work required to make them fit & work correctly on a Daytona (which these replacements valves are not designed or made for anyway), I realized most owners, mechanics or restorers are probably not able or willing to endure either and that’s why many likely just gerry-rig(sp ?) latter in to use “as is”.

    While it may sound easy, just like any other method of reproducing complex obscure parts for very limited market that are expected to not only perform an important and long lasting function in automotive use, but also look “authentic”, can require fair amount of labor intensive/time consuming (i.e. costly) R & D. It may also require costly equipment & material investments.

    When you consider above along with very limited markets with some percentage of potential buyers not willing to pay for the OEM equivalent (or better) quality, especially if something that’s sort of similar or even if not, but can be rigged to work for less, etc... suddenly trying to replicate accurate/authentic/correct replacement parts may not make much, if any, (financial) sense.

    And then, if you do take a leap of faith and start developing accurate replacement for some obscure part only to find that after perhaps a year or two into its R & D, someone else introduces a similar, maybe even lesser quality item before you’re ready with yours... oh well.

    Been there, done that..., ...more than once, although never used 3D, except on one prototype, but the costs involved with programming alone exceeded efficiency of that process and the final “print” (out of some plastic composite ?) would’ve required substantial amount of additional work to make it appear like metal it’s supposed to be.

    Even now I have several replacement part and component production projects, some with years of R & D spent on them, that I’m attempting sometime in the near future to make available for very limited markets with hopes of recuperating most of my (time & money) investments, but if the past is any indication, I should be pleased to just have helped some cars to be more “correct” while not loosing too much $$ in the process.
    Definitely not expecting much, if any profits, let alone prospects for retirement.
     
  21. Colombo1

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    #22 Colombo1, Sep 21, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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    I rebuilt this valve using the top casting (dry side) and mechanism from the original valve. The lower wet side casting was corroded and beyond repair so I used the lower casting and rubber from the new valve (like the one pictured in the post above) after carefully removing the incorrect mounting tabs. The original valves mount on a chassis bracket using two of the lid screws.
     
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  22. Portenos

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    OK I think I have stared into the abyss and have come away with a complete understanding of this dark subject.
    TTR, you have put it all into perspective. Fortunately for me I drive my Daytona and am NOT concerned about some future judge "peeking up my kimono"
    I want the dam thing to WORK and I believe Gary Bobileff can accomplish my wish.
    I must admit I have gained a new respect for Daytona water valves through the combined knowledge of my fellow chatters.
    Thank you one and all.
    In yet another attempt to purchase the best replacement possible I bought this one which has at least a spring.
    From Lake Como
    Ciao,
    FGM

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  23. Colombo1

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    I drive mine too but, for me, keeping it correct is a big part of the fun!
     
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  24. Portenos

    Portenos Formula 3
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    Yes, TTR you are correct. It is very important in my mind as well, especially with things that one sees, such as wipers, door handles, interior fittings, well you get the idea however when it comes to items that are not visible and the cost/worth are out of balance given the time and expense, one can make compromises in order to continue to enjoy the car.
    It is my careful opinion that this non original part can be replaced with the "perfect" recreation at some point in the future perhaps 100 or 200 years from now.
    As the works of Leonardo's da Vinci or Leonardo Fioravanti's, will always be appreciated.
    Ciao,
    FGM
     

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