Daytonas crash

Gary, you are correct, over 130 the XWX's are squirmy and need more pressure. I like the way the car drives on them better than modern tires although of course the modern rubber could be more sticky and smoother.. Daytonas are not happy on low profile tires, they need a bit of rounded corners to work well. Of course the racers are a different story I suppose. These tires were fitted last year and have a recent build date.
Malcolm

 

i am grinning from ear to ear!!!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230319858325&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&viewitem=

 

There are few hard and fast rules and I can only sight specific purchases and sales that I am involved with or completed myself as well as those by close friends, clients and other dealers that I do business with and speak with on a regular basis.

I am aware of slow or no movement of any Ferrari 275 GTB/4s above the $1M mark and there are at least four being offered for sale at this level.

In the past fourteen days however one of our old and still in nice condition GTB/4s sold at a little over $900K. I would call that the current maximum value in most cases. At least it is a gauge on a real car that actually sold rather than owners offering cars and potential buyers simply stating mythically what they might be willing to pay.

I have to laugh when my clients tell me when Lussos are $250K, let me know and I will buy. The same for 2 and 4 cams at silly low prices.

Prices are always going to be a combination set of what an owner wants and a buyer is willing to pay. If they do not compromise and meet at one number, then no sale has taken place and the market is not set.

The last GTC that I sold was $235K a few months back. I thought the car well bought at the time but think today it would probably be less as there are too many so so cars being offered for less and few of those meeting the buyer demand.

There are quite a few Daytonas being offered for $325K to $395K. We however have sold most of them recently for $275K. I would say that is a more market correct number at the moment and one that has several recent sales examples to support it.

A slew of nice to very nice Lussos traded at $500K to $550K. At least two went off for more. They seem to be all over the place and I can only tell you that I have a very nice one for sale and at the moment a buyer and I have yet to meet at an agreed price.

In my opinion, the owner of the 275GTB on ebay should have said yes to the $700K bid. It was a nice car and it was a fair offer. On the other hand, I am involved in the sale of a very rare alloy 2-cam, long-nose, GTB/6C and the selling price is going to be well over $1M. Again this is not typical of the market but quite outside the normal range and reflects and individual vehicle.

I believe the constant news and information stream about the world markets, currencies, economics etc... have all greatly effected trading prices of these machines but not the interest in them.

I will state that more than half of my own recent sales were as a direct result of the economics that have come into play over the last year. The new buyers seemed to have a common theme. They had the cash, it was liquid, they did not believe its value would remain the same over the next 6 to 18 months and rather than see its buying power diminish, they thought an interesting machine would be a nice purchase. They also seemed very concerned about rampant inflation that would follow what is currently occurring.

These are smart people. Far smarter than me. But that does not mean they are right, only that they believe what they are doing is right.

One last little tid-bit on value based items. We are located in La Jolla, California. It is a very desirable place to be with homes commanding staggering prices that make even the most expensive Ferraris seem cheap. There is a constant stream of buyers for some of the choice waterfront homes. They are finding nothing to buy. On paper the prices of the homes may have come down, but these are the lesser desirable "just off the water" units. The really good pieces of property have completely bucked the system and actually gone up in value.

Thats a hard thing to explain to the guy who bought a condo 10 miles south in downtown San Diego for $750,000 two years ago and today it is only worth $400K!

Enough preaching. The best advise I can give any owner, seller or buyer is be smart, act wisely and independently. There are going to be some very good deals in the months to come but the pendulum will likely swing the other way and with little warning.

The following might sound familiar to a few but not all readers here:

"I remember when Daytona's were $25,000!" 1979

"I remember when Daytona's were $350,000!" 1989

"I remember when Daytona's were $125,000!" 1999

"I remember when Daytona's were $250,000!" 2009


Question: Bill, what is my Daytona going to be worth in 2019?

Answer: Asking me (or my son) in 2020!


Cheers,

Bill

 

Whew - strong money for a 2-cam these days - $750K .

 

hi,
Can someone please help me, What was the total number of Daytona production (not including comp and other specials)?

rgds
elad

 

circa 1400 units?

 

Is the "realized" market price on a decent 330GTC really $150K? I would definitely be interested in buying a good example for that price. The most difficult part of playing this market is the delta between "asked" and the final price on cars that get sold. I see most 330GTCs currently FS listed at prices around $215,000 to $275,000 - are the ones getting sold going for $150K?

 

www.daytonaregistry.com is a useful source for all things Daytona.

"Ferrari had completed 1284 GTB/4's, 179 of which were right-hand drive. A total of just 121(as well as one prototype Spyder making it a total of 122) Daytona Spyders were manufactured by comparison. Of the 122 Spyders only seven were right hand drive."

 

OK thanks.

So im a bit lazy, and I just looked at only two websites on the web, Anamera and ClassicDriver.
The combined Ferrari Daytona offering is about 50 cars. Considering the large overlap between the listers on the two sites, im haircutting the number to 30 (again im lazy, so I wont go car by car). Adding to the 30 number about twice the number for cars advertised for sale outside these two fine websites, I get 60. Again not scientific but reasonable math - I think.

So, we have about 60 Daytona offered for sale in late January 2009, after the world has entered the worst downturn in 70 years.
Said differently, we have about 4% to 5% of TOTAL production on offer at this time. Wow.

Doesn’t take a really smart person, to figure out what comes next.

elad

 

Ian,
Thanks for that. Am I reading correctly then that it is 1284 Berlinettas plus 122 Spyders=1406 total units?
Best,
Dave

 

Your maths are correct, although Gerald Roush (Ferrari Market Letter) has published the definitive numbers but I'm away from my bookshelf at the moment. 148 is the number in my mind for RHD production.

 

You can make a polemic argument to reach any conclusion you require. The reality is that Daytona TOTAL production is quite a different thing to say 360 TOTAL production and different again to 275 TOTAL production.

Speculation about market prices is ultimately pointless. If you love fast, classic V12 Ferrari Berlinettas, anytime is a good time to buy a Daytona.

 

Hi guys,

The black Stramman Daytona Spyder Conversion that Gary used to start this thread on January 21st was sold this morning to a new client.

We are down to one show Coupe and our single-owner-from-new Factory Spyder. Thats four sold Daytonas out of six in less than four weeks.

I am hoping the red "show" coupe meets the expectations of an interested buyer before the month closes out.

Warm regards,

Bill Noon

 

I have a sneaky suspicion that clients secretly like it when dealers loose money to sell them a car.

On the other hand as said before... even on the best days, you never make enough money on the first sale to make it worthwhile. It is the repeat client and favorable referrals that keep your kids in school and the doors open.

Cheers,

Bill

 

Why do people shop price and not quality? Do they have any idea how much money and time is involved to take a crap cheap car and make it enjoyable to drive? Good cars are expensive because someone has sunk tons of money and time into restoring it. Most cars for sale are crap and have been sitting around without being driven.In this market you will find people that have had cars for a long time that have not been properly maintained and now trying to cash in. People in the market need to look not only at the price, but WHO has worked on the car. There are only a handfull of people that know how to do proper repairs and restorations.Don't let a nice new paint job fool you. Do your homework first and learn about the whos who in the vintage Ferrari restoration world. I remember when I was new in the vintage Ferrari market. I could not understand why the same model cost 100K more from another dealer. They both looked the same, had the same engine, ect. I went for the cheaper car. After 2 plus years with my car in a restoration shop I now know why the other car cost more. As it turns out it would have been cheaper...... I learned, believe me. These cars are expensive to fix. LEARN AS MUCH AS YOU CAN FIRST!

 

Well said VV12N!

All four of the Daytonas that were sold this month had multiple PPI and background checks. Some were a little over the top and a bit lengthy, but I can respect a buyer taking some very careful time to do his homework give the market and supply of cars.

The only car that seemed to be bought on the quick was the over-restored Ex-Skeets Dunn car at the Gooding Sale. I know that two of the bidders or potential bidders had pre-checked the car out but do not know if the actual buyer at the sale had done his homework.

On the other hand, all four were sold at a fraction of their cost, restoration and service expenses so in any case the new owners probably felt reasonably assured that they were buying well... or likely would have not done so.

Cheers,

Bill

 

From years of experience, I know one thing, when it comes to buying "old cars", the PPI is only 50% of the equation. A PPI will not tell the whole story about a car to the buyer. Beside a PPI, a buyer should always take the time to look at the car in person and also drive it. This will go a long way in a buyer realizing a positive result in their purchase. The buyers that only rely on pictures, description and a PPI by a third party often come away disappointed when the car arrives on their door step. Ones expectations often differ from another's. Some aspects of the prepurchase expectations are very subjective and buyers need to know this.

Gene

 

Consignments and brokering can be both good and bad.

We prefer to sell only what we own but remain flexible.

With a consignment, you may find yourself a slave to a previous owner's mistake and in the unfortunate position of having to pass that mistake onto someone else.

As a responsible owner / dealer, you may have the same issue but at least by allowing full unrestricted inspections and testing etc... you and buyer are eventually equalized by a common price. If you do not, then a car will remain unsold.

As mentioned above, price might be a starting point but in the end comfort and a sale is only achieved by aggressive testing, evaluation and independent inspection. This of course being followed by both buyer and seller meeting at an agreed price.

Miss anyone of the steps above and no sale will ever occur.

Now more than ever it is not only good business but the only way to stay in business.

Cheers,

Bill

 

Agree totally.

 

I purchased a Daytona from Bill at Symbolic, and they accurately detailed its needs (which have all been taken care of) prior to purchase and PPI. I am very happy with the car and hope to enjoy it for a long time. Bill priced the car right and it moved in a reasonable time. Highly recommended.

Joe Seminetta