Dead clutch in subbasement garage; experts: opine! | FerrariChat

Dead clutch in subbasement garage; experts: opine!

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by buzzm2005, Jan 1, 2024.

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  1. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,739
    NYC
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    Buzz
    Hello everyone.
    So my 83 512i decided to abandon the clutch hydraulics. Never mind mush; it's zero resistance to the firewall.

    She has to be towed out of a 2 level deep parking garage with 2 rather sharp turns.

    Questions:
    1. No tow hook on 83 512i, correct?
    2. Where best to wrap the tow slings to drag her out of the basement?

    Thanks all.
     
  2. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    9,543
    southwest Germany, France ( Alsace ) and Thailand
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    romano schwabel
    why tow the car out of the parking garage?
    have a look first at the brake fluid reservoir if there is missing brake fluid. if so then fill up and bleed the hydraulic system for the clutch. if no brake fluid is missing then try to bleed anyway the hydraulik clutch system. then you see what could be wrong: the master or the slave cylinder. both you can change where the car is stored. so no need to take the car out by towing.
     
    4right likes this.
  3. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,739
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    Appropriate triage turbo-joe -- but no one on this side can bleed anything, and even if they claim they can I'm not so sure. This is an extrication project. Almost like an archaeological dig. :)
     
  4. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,739
    NYC
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    Buzz
    Unless....

    Someone on the UWS of Manhattan wants a swing at this? Truth is I'd only trust the car to Vinny Latino at Auto Elite in Tenafly NJ and Paul Newman (no intro needed).
     
  5. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    romano schwabel
    to bleed the hydraulic system for the clutch is no magic. every one with a little technical knowledge can do this. and if only so good that you can drive the car out of the storage.
    your occupation is technology managment as your profile says. so managment is theoretical. try to put your theoretical knowledge into practice and bleed by yourself with a friend. alone without bleeding tool it is not possible.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,108
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
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    Brian Crall
    In answer to question 1. In the top secret document known as "The Owners Manual" oddly enough under the heading "Towing" It pictures the tow hook and where to install it.
     
  7. JohnMH

    JohnMH Formula 3

    Jan 28, 2004
    1,821
    Bologna
    The pressure plate might have rusted to the flywheel. When you pushed in the clutch pedal, the seals let go.

    Get it in neutral, see if it rolls first. Wheel bearings and rotors can fight your efforts to relocate. After that, it depends how close a vehicle with a winch can get. You just need a hook and someone to steer it when being winched.
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    37,108
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    A pressure plate cannot possibly rust to the flywheel. There are discs and a floater plate separating them. The discs themselves get rusted to the various surfaces but that in no way interferes with compression of the clutch springs or the movement of the throw out bearing. It is a very common occurrence I have experienced many times. He evidently has a simple hydraulic failure.

    The time for internet guesswork is behind us and the time to get it out of the garage to have it fixed is before us.
     
    Llenroc and INRange like this.
  9. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,739
    NYC
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    Buzz
    Grrr... my toolkit is incomplete! No tow hook although I do have *two* lead mallets.
    Thanks all for the suggestions.
     
  10. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,739
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    Update: Tow bolt was in fact in pouch; I was simply too hasty in looking. Found 2 spark plugs too. Hadn't looked at them in ... 17 years?
    But! The bolt will NOT screw into the receptacle just behind the front valance (as noted in the manual, thank you Brian)! The bolt seems to be a wee too wide; cannot get the first threads engaged.

    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    4,465
    Edmonton, AB Canada
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Buzz,

    It is possible that debris/crud is present in the receptacle and so preventing the tow hook from threading. You could try to "chase"/clean the threads with an appropriate threaded "tap"... however, you would need a suitable tap and wrench, but this should be easy to get from Amazon.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  12. 71veedub

    71veedub Formula Junior

    May 31, 2006
    339
    Boston/North Shore
    Full Name:
    Greg
    If the clutch is in the clamped state it may be possible to drive it out. About 10 years ago I drove my 928 home from work (30 mi) after the slave cylinder seal failed just as I was pulling into the parking garage. I did wait until mid-day for lightest traffic conditions. Are the turns in your garage too tight to navigate in 1st gear at engine idle speed? The pay-gate would probably be the real challenge but maybe it is flat there and could be pushed.
     
    turbo-joe likes this.
  13. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Aug 24, 2013
    4,414
    Not uncommon, on TR's also, that the toolkit tow hook is the wrong size.

    Apparently, the correct part number is the same as the TR - 119047 which is superseeded by 125522.

    Those are not available but if it's like the TR one, the 360 tow hook should fit - that's 155838

    https://www.ricambiamerica.com/155838-tow-hook.html

    Size should be M16 x 1.5


    If you want to save a few bucks I have a spare used one.
     
  14. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
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    Aug 24, 2013
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  15. 71veedub

    71veedub Formula Junior

    May 31, 2006
    339
    Boston/North Shore
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    Greg
    maybe you can find someone with something like this:

    https://cartowdolly.com/

    just to get it out of the garage. you might even be able to hook that up behind a small tractor/utility vehicle. we once towed my brother-in-law's RX7 up the large hill of our 1/2 mi driveway several times with a quad, after trying to clutch start it downhill, before giving up and deciding the scrapers were toast (low compression).
     
  16. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
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    That's what is probably going to happen. If I cannot source the front bolt, we will use the right rear anchorage and pull her out backwards to the first turn, push it around the corner, push it down to the main entrance, then do it again to get out to street.
     
    71veedub likes this.
  17. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
    4,465
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day Buzz,

    If you know the bolt diameter and thread, you could simply buy a suitable Eyelet bolt for now... McMaster Carr sells a number of them in Metric Sizes:

    https://www.mcmaster.com/products/eyebolts/system-of-measurement~metric/eyebolts~/

    On the plus side, you can retain this bolt until you find the original factory one if you wish.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
    buzzm2005 likes this.
  18. lagunacc

    lagunacc F1 Rookie
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    Aug 24, 2013
    4,414
    Yours looks like 12mm (x 1.75)

    Here's a cheap one

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/275691022918
     
  19. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    808
    Chicagoland
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    Dave Bendl
    Hey Buzz,
    Hope you are in good health. I have a receipt from the previous owner of my BBI (you know him Richard A) this happened to him while he owned the car in NY. They did a clutch removal at the time to free it. If the clutch hydraulics are ok, I have heard from others you may be able to "bump" the clutch free once you have the car in safe place to do so. Ive never had that happen while in storage so Im not exactly clear on the specifics or proceedure how bumping is done to free a stuck clutch....Dave
     
  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    the problem is not the clutch, it is the hydraulic system for the clutch
    please read the first post here
     
  21. Dave Bendl

    Dave Bendl Formula Junior

    Dec 7, 2003
    808
    Chicagoland
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    Dave Bendl
    Thank you for correcting my post Joe, and yes I did read that the issue in the first post, which is why I stated "If the clutch hydraulics are ok" however, Richard A's receipt does state the clutch cylinder was replaced and blead prior to bringing the car in for tear down of a stuck clutch. The NY Boxer group is really tight with each other so Buzz may want to contact Richard A. seeking his experience and details.
    Again, thanks for being ultra quick and ready to correct other posters.
    Dave
     
  22. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    9,543
    southwest Germany, France ( Alsace ) and Thailand
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    romano schwabel
    you are absolutely right with this, but the problem is with the hydraulics. so first have to fix this. may be later other things.
     
  23. buzzm2005

    buzzm2005 Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,739
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    Buzz
    Thanks Dave! Happy and healthy in NYC; hope you are the same in … Chicago?
     

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