Debating between a Scud / Stradale / 997 GT2

there's actually a way to see how many scuds and CS were produced, accurate to +10 or -10. but this involves too much of a sacrifice.

1. Try very hard to apply for a job in a ferrari dealer, anywhere in the world
2. access the MODIS. systematically type in every single serial number from the first CS somewhere around 13xxxx to the last CS, maybe 14xxxx and record all of them
3. do the same for the scud

actually this works for virtually every modern model.

problem solved.

 

It's less important how many were produced and more important "how many still exist".

The CS was a low demand car when it was introduced. Nobody really wanted it. So not very many were produced. Many of those that were produced were wrecked and totaled. By the time the Scud rolled around folks saw the potential collectibility of the special edition and demand was high.

While I suppose "nobody" knows how many of each exist today it's pretty obvious just by looking at for sale listings that there are many more Scuds than CS's out there today. Right now on Ebay there is 1 CS and 7 Scud/16M listed for sale.

 

Your silly and transparent attempts to discredit anyone's input re the CS by continuously saying that people claim the CS is faster is utter nonsense (a "million times"?). Please show us 10 times (or even 5 by 5 different posters) and I'll waive the other 999,990 times you claim someone said that.

[Everyone knows the scud is faster than a CS in any straight line or curved line with the same driver. Dino has claimed he is faster in his CS than some drivers in their scuds on track. So what? Who has ever claimed the CS is faster, let alone a million times? You have an issue with him, please stop trying to discredit anyone else who says something on this comparative topic by associating them with your lies (faster? It's been said a million times?) and bias.]

Sorry, your childish attempts to discredit many who say anything about scuds and CS that you disagree with by falsely bringing forth your nonsensical (and untrue) strawman shows your bias, not the other posters'. If a poster who literally said "CS is faster" posts something, it's fair for you to point out their bias by referring to their earlier statement.... It's not relevant to anyone else posting something.

 

Think you misinterpreted his post. He's saying other people have said the CS is faster than the scud a million times, and the "million" is clearly hyperbole -- exaggeration used to make a point, not to be taken literally.

 

I'm not misreading. I know (of course) the million is hyperbole and I know he is disparaging other people who he thinks have made that claim. Sadly (likely my online writing) you misunderstood my post.

I've seen him do this a few times whenever someone posts something in favor of the CS that he disagrees with. He's convinced that some (many? Most? All?) CS fans and owners are delusional and he alone is capable of unbiased posts on the (tiresome) comparison threads.

 

Both Ferraris are Mid-Engined, Normally aspirated cars while the Porsche is a Rear Engined Turbo charged car, so I'm not sure you're really doing an Apples-To-Apples comparison.

Wouldn't a better comparison be the Porsche GT4 which has a Mid-Engined, Normally aspirated 911 engine? The GT4 exhaust note is closer to a SCUD than any other Porsche I've heard. The GT4 is a limited production (2400), raw track focused car like the SCUD/CS, PLUS it only comes in a manual.

 

Good comparison....the gt4 sounds like quite a car (in the vein of a CS or scud like experience...as would gt3 in my book). Btw, I read someplace that the gt4 would be offered with a pdk at some point too?

 

Only time and the market will tell which appreciates more the CS or the Scud. Both are exciting and relatively limited (compared to 360 and 430 total production numbers) V8 N/A Fcars and anyone is lucky to own and drive either IMHO. Who cares which is faster, the 488 is faster than both but that doesn't affect how I feel when driving my Scud .

 

Look, I have had multiple discussions with Meat about this too. And I found that he is actually a pretty level headed guy - just with staunch opinions on his Scud. I like the guy (and Arizona I like your style too) but I digress. Anyhow I tried to explain to Meat how the Stradale did have an edge on the Scud ~ and that it seems that it could "be faster" in that category. He would have none of that though as he again assured me that the Scud was more powerful - period. I tried to explain that I was not talking power - but balance. And with balance you could actually be faster. Maybe not faster in the straight, but perhaps faster in the corners.

Like this:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGidzFZpG_s[/ame]

Cornering speed is up to the balance of the car, not the power of the engine.

We agreed to disagree but the point is valid. A better balanced car can be faster in the corners.

 

I always back up all disagreements and retort in a matching level of exaggeration as to the original remark. The only reason I can see that you've singled me out is because I'm the only person who calls something out.

Some claim the CS is just as fast a Scuderia. I post a video utterly obliterating that claim.
Some claim there's only a few hundred CS'. I post numbers from the registry.
Some claim there are 4,000 Scuds. I post the fact that no one outside of Ferrari has the official numbers.

I use the term CS delusion, it doesn't mean all CS owners, don't try to add words to my mouth. It simply means how it's said, a delusion biased by CS ownership or admiration.

The only misstep I've taken it seems is that my disagreements don't seem to sit very comfortably with you and I've coined a term for CS exaggerations. You can always put me on ignore? Or take it up with the mods?

 

Would you post them again? I've never seen this.

 

I agree with almost everything said here. And can only add that in equal hands w all the proper adjustments, the speciale will always be faster than a Scuderia and a Scuderia will always be faster than a CS. It's simply a non-debatable reality of progress.

 

You call it delusion, maybe it's a combination of passion and utter madness. Whatever it is, CS owners and fans have more of it. It's the overall emotion, inter-self and human condition that drives the market of these cars, not necessarily speed, shift times & rational thought.

I always let the marketplace tell the story. Are Challenge Stradale owners and fan boys just delusional? Is it delusion & pure hype that's responsible for pushing CS prices? Maybe. And nobody can say with 100% accuracy that values will go to the moon. It's too early. It's still the beginning of this epic tale of ferrari/Porsche track weapons. Choose your weapon and let the force be with you.



...yes I did a Star Wars reference

 

How about a 2001 6.0 Lamborghini Diablo? This would be my choice. Rarer than any of the cars mentioned and a stand out in the crowd.

 

I finally got to try out my scud on some great local back roads. I was impressed and still had another 2,000 rpms left in the motor. I don't feel that I was even close to the limits of the car and I was trying. Then the girlfriend got sick...oops! It's an amazing machine.

 

Boy, that scenario sounds familiar.

 

If you ask me, I will get the scud, then GT2, then CS. My 5 cents. Of course, it's your money, use it how you deem reasonable.

 

The gear stick is really the main positive side of the GT2, but those turbos... It's really a different car. I have a friend with a 997 GT2 - it goes REALLY fast on a straight line, but that's about it...

I've remembered about this video when I saw the thread:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYSIuZrQ3FI

 

Don't know about the 997 GT2, but the Turbo S sounds fast around corners. Not sure why the GT2 wouldn't be. Evo was surprised to find that the new Turbo S is faster than the Speciale around Angelsey . . .

https://youtu.be/Uv8z7inZKpU

 

From what I've heard, the 991 is overall very different from the 997, so maybe that's the answer.

 

Ah, could be. Probably also has a lot to do with who's behind the wheel. Seem to recall Clarkson declaring the GT2 undrivable but the Stig putting down a fast time.

 

I have a 997 GT2 that I actually use as my daily driver. I've put 25,000 enjoyable miles on it so far, and have taken it to the track a few times where it embarrassed GT3 RS's and racecars with cages and slicks. I also owned a CS for 7 happy years and put about 10,000 miles on that one, including quite a few track days as well.

My view:
They are both very special cars, built without compromise for a singular purpose. The CS is more sensual, mostly because of the sweet sound of the engine. It's almost a perfect balance of power and handling, neither overwhelms the other. It's a true pleasure to drive hard. The CS is also the first of breed in the CS, Scud Speciale evolution, and as such I think it's a purer car. More of an engineers racecar for the street than marketing department idea.

The GT2 is a Jekyll/Hyde car. Tool around easily and it's more than happy to comply. Let's get some groceries? No problem says Dr. Jekyll. Non-car people think it's just another Porsche, but on closer inspection there is something muscular and purposeful about it. When you wake up Mr. Hyde though, holy crap!! It goes like a scalded cat, and not just in a straight line either, it handles shockingly well through the corners. The lack of a front transfer case and associated weight really livens the car up relative to the awd turbos. It's basically a GT3RS with 100 extra hp. It's also one of the last few performance Porsche models with a manual gearbox, if that's your thing. They only brought 180 997 GT2's into the US, so they are in limited supply. For a collector car, I would say the GT2 RS would be better, simply because it was the last iteration with the manual gearbox. If you just want the experience, but want to save a couple hundred thousand, get a 997 GT2, give it a flash, RS intercoolers, single mass flywheel and better clutch and you're basically there.

My 2c:
Collector car: CS
Multi-purpose DD/track weapon: 997 GT2


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IW5YaqswWM8