December Forza: Modern 12 Market Update

It's the same old recycled article with new values. Forza really needs to get new material.

 

Sheehan is a used car salesman,nothing more.He provides little more than a "clearing house" from which to showcase others possesions for his profit.Sorry to burst your bubble--he's a lowly broker.By definition his opinions are self-serving so don't waiste any of your energy contemplating his opionions,they are ultimately valueless.Like any other broker,he doesn't set any markets,he merely responds to them therefore his predictions self-serving and based on what he's been able to sell this week.Intelligent,sencere enthusiasts possess what it takes to determine values,not money grubbing brokers.
-raptr

 

My only interaction with Mr. Sheehan was a few years ago when I was buying my 512BBi. It was my first Ferrari purchase and as a complete neophyte, I was seeking some advice. Having seen his name around, I asked Mr. Sheehan for some help with this purchase as far as price and what to look for. He asked for a description of the car: it had 11,900 miles, all original, rosso corsa over black boxer bottom, tobacco leather interior with dark brown leather dash, Amerispec conversion, tools, and every conceiveable form of documentation including telex commmunications between Ferrari and purchaser/bill of sale/shipping documents/Amerispec/maintenance. The car had been a part of a prestigious collection and had a "thumbs-up" PPI. When I told him that I offered the seller $75,000, he said that I had "offered all the money" and lead me to believe that I blown the deal and had made a big mistake. Well, four years later and a few thousand miles, I couldn't be happier with my "mistake."

 

A few years ago, say any more than 3, that was indeed all the money. I paid all mine was worth too, so not picking.

Sheehan is - to me - a seriously valuable resource since he DOES have vast amounts of market experience, has seen rises and falls, checks written, cars delivered, collections made and collections crashed. Pretty deep database. Yes, perhaps a bit of 'self serving' comes from his opinions, but who among us wouldn't?

His life's career is buy low/sell high, which naturally tends to alienate (or at least incense) those privvy to both sides. Part of the game, he takes it pretty well, and I appreciate his rare posts here. Whether Forza is rehashing the previously hashed, out of his control. Just my 1 cent.

 

radnor,
perhaps you should have offered Sheehan a magnum of Grande Dame,that would have changed his tune....I'm gald to hear that you are happy with your purchase(as you should be-sounds like a very nice car),after all isn't that all that matters?
-raptr

 

..."a life's career spent buying low and selling high"?Well I'm not quite sure how to take that statement.I'm not sure why you think that is admireable so I'll not spend too much on that one except to say that if he deals in pork bellies then I guess a "well done boy" is in order.But since he chooses to involve himself in a beautiful artform I find it hard to compliment him on exploiting others for profit.

"Valuable resource.."?I didn't realize that he had some sort of magical mystical double secret list of cars that have sold cars....sorry.

-raptr

 

+1
I used to look forward to reading his articles but over time I realized I'm reading the exact same thing each time.
Nothing much insightful in them they've become "duh, I already knew that but thanks for telling me anyway" kind of articles.

 

MS has never liked the TRs and bad mouths them quite a bit. He is very knowledgable, and I respect his opinions, BUT I do think they are self serving- not any different than several other F-car market analysts. I like MS's articles sometimes, but I think FORZA should get other F-car market experts to write. Quite frankly, lately I have found these articles quite boring. Of course we all can become experts- look at prices, find out sale price, read articles, pretend, and then pontificate.

Many people, including enthusiasts, still think the Boxer and TRs were some of the most awesome designs- that includes Pininfarina. I have never run out of offers for my red roller skate.

Remember when the experts, includng FORZA authors, said the 330 GT would not be a good investment. So much for their expertise. I don't think anyone should purchase a F-car for investment. I think ALL Ferrari models look great and are awesome cars, with the exception of a few re-bodies. But, I think with a little JD, some of those can look better. I don't care what model. It's all about personal taste. However, I don't like "experts" passing off their personal tastes and translating it into some level of objectivity.


OK enough-

 

I don't remember saying it was admirable, only that when WE - THIS GROUP - "sees" both the buying at wholesale price and the selling at retail price, it can cause reactions like "exploit" or "unfair" and things like that. Just natural for us (me included) to view it that way.

You and I define "valuable resource" differently. To me, F-chat, including your input, is a "valuable resource"; doesn't require magical, mystical double secrecy. You're more than welcome to PM me or call if you want to take it offline.

Original post about Modern 12 Market Update - I'd imagine any REAL update coming soon will reflect a dip for all Ferraris, not just the 'modern' era. Personally, I've never seen as many TRs and even 328s (which I love) on ebay... ever.

 

ahudson,
As I look at my previous post I realize that it does come accross less than kind and I appologize if I have offended anyone.However,I suggest that we will have to "agree to disagree" about MS being a "valuable resource".His opinions,his historical record of sales,his predictions,etc.,are all based on one thing:his self-serving ventures.Period.He's not in it to help you accomplish your dreams,he's in it to make money.Period.Personally,I think it unwise to place "value" on any opinion from such a person as it always has an ulterior motive attached to it.He's the archetypical middle management personified....he could go away tomorrow and it would not negatively affect our "passion" one bit.The net would probably be a 10-to-20 percent savings to you in your next car purchase.
-raptr

 

well sheehan is an idiot, many Boxers have doubled or tripled in value the past few years. Sheehan always had had a bias on the Boxers maybe one scared him and he filled his shorts, I asked him what his deal was here and he said the daytona was far more beautiful than a bb and the boxer was boring in the looks department, I feel just the opposite to me Ferrari must be mid engine and low and wide all of which the bb is, the daytona is boring in comparison, even Pinninfarina called the BBs looks as super exotic.

 

touche 512bbnevada,
It's a very,very long stretch to say that a Daytona possesses a more exciting aesthetic than a BB.Only someone desparately clinging on(the wallets)of the old guard would ever propose such an argument.In fact it's an insult to the educated enthusiast.Compare the Daytona to the competition of its day.....boring....seriously a distant second or third(sorry Enzo-I'll say twenty hail marries).The last of the front engined V-12's? OK,that's true....equivilant to the last person standing when the music stops....an embarrassment at best.
-raptr

 

I like the comments from 512bbnevada and follow-up comments from raptr. I think we should write into FORZA about this and get other people to write these articles. I like some of MS's F-car history articles, so I don't necessarily want him to stop contributing in that area, but have him stay away from writing the buyer's guide material. I am willing to write in to FORZA.

 

He has a very nice Boxer for sale @ $129K and I am sure he will take less.

 

10 years ago if someone told me a hemi cuda convertible would pull in $4M someday, I would have died laughing. A friend of mine looked at exactly one of those cars sitting in a snowbank in toronto in the early 80's and passed on buying it for $3K because it has surface rust on the floor pan LMAO! Who would have known?

 

I just did a quick scan of every article at MS's site. There is no mention of the Mondial. They made, what, 6000 of them? The Mondial remains the only 4 seater convertible mid-engine sports car and Ferrari has not made anything like it since 1993. Yet MS does not acknowledge the car, even in the Driver Bargains section. What does that say?

 

He may be right, who knows. But I can tell you out of all the cars I've owned including 275's, Daytonas, 246's, a bunch of 308's the Boxer is my favorite car to drive on an early Sunday morning.

Drew Altemara

 

Very well said.

When I started in this business with the exception of the GTO, 250's were considered old junk that would never be worth anything. Even SWB's were just considered interesting old junk. FNG's like me were made to work on that stuff because no one else wanted to and they figured we couldn't hurt it too much learning how to work on Ferraris.

Then it was the 275

Then it was the 330

Then it was the 365's. And the Queen Mother.....Well that was just a parts car for real 365's.

Then it was the 512


And the Dino, Christ if anyone caught you calling it a Ferrari back then you got thrown bodily out of the shop.







Is pretty much everyone but MS getting the picture?

 

A mid-engined rocketship from the first half of the '70ies of which only 387 were built, with the best looks of the '70ies to boot. The last of the hand-built Ferraris. The first mid-engined flat-12. Surely there must be some appreciation potential there?

Sure, we can say that in total there were around 2,500 Boxers in a 12 years production run but that's still less than double of all Daytona's. In recent years we have clearly seen that the star of the Boxer was rising, even relative to old favourites, and I see no reason why it shouldn't continue to do so when prices recover.


Onno

 

Looks like sheehan is bitter that he is still stuck with that blue 512tr and decided to use the power of the pen to take out his frustration.