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Deciding on a Cali vs Cali T for somewhat regular use to work

Discussion in 'California/Portofino' started by skinguy23, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. skinguy23

    skinguy23 Formula Junior

    Jun 19, 2011
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    Just thought I would ask advice of members who have these cars. I am an F owner who likes to switch things up too frequently, but now I am considering getting another used Cali vs maybe a Cali T. My budget allows me quite a few options for older Californias, or a slight reach for a higher mileage Cali T. I live in Florida, so this could be a year round car (which is great). I have had 2 Californias in the past (crashed one for a total loss), but I have not had a Cali T. Just gave up my portofino for an 812, and I kind of miss the flexibility and every day “driveability” of the 2+2 hard top convertibles. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks


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  2. tomc

    tomc F1 World Champ

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    If cost is the same, I think it comes down to whether you have a pref for NA or turbo. If it were me, I'd get a Cali 30 with the Handling Speciale package. I think the NA Calis look better than the T. On the other hand, if it's going to be a semi DD, then a newer, lower miles example might be the way to go. Good luck...T
     
  3. skinguy23

    skinguy23 Formula Junior

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    Thanks. It would be a semi DD. I like both options for NA vs turbo, but I wasn’t sure if the Cali T was worth the extra money (is it more fun?)


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  4. Tireman

    Tireman Karting
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    Cali 30 is much more fun
    T is more “practical” if that word can be used in the same sentence as Ferrari
    Drive both and you will know what suits you !!
     
  5. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Karting

    May 29, 2019
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    I'd say Cali T without a second thought. I find that the ride is just so much more sorted and balanced. To me, the original Cali suspension never felt right. A bit like too much spring rate for the amount of chassis flex, and too little damper. A somewhat harsh, rattely and busy ride, but in a car that still felt somewhat soft. I think the Cali T really sorted this out nicely. Yes, it's not N/A, but the chassis is much better, and for all intended purposes, the original Cali did seem a bit on the underpowered side, compared to its bigger siblings. You come from an 812, which to date is by far the best Ferrari I've had the pleasure of experiencing, with its incredible sound, heaps of power, but ability to put it down, not to mention the way it rides and drives. That's a tall order when talking about staying engaged. Do I think a Cali can pull it off? No. Seeing how the 812 makes me feel, that little n/a v8 and that busy chassis is just too far from what you have gotten used to. But the Cali T being an overall more sorted and much more powerful package, can probably do it. As you are an 812 owner, I take it that you have driven the F12. I'd say the gap between the Cali and Cali T is even greater than that between the F12 and 812 - and that's no small gap.
     
  6. Chizz

    Chizz Karting

    May 21, 2017
    104
    Atlanta
    Great Summation here. My vote is the Cali T. I disagree that the NA Cali looked better. The Cali T is an improvement in every way. You can’t go wrong.
     
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  7. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Karting

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    Thank you :) Yes, definitely prefer the T look as well.
     
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  8. skinguy23

    skinguy23 Formula Junior

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    Definitely a “first world problem”. But I appreciate the advice. And the 812 is sublime for sure. Drove it today and loved it!


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  9. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    Like most things how it looks is a matter of opinion, I have a T (I don't the either the looks of the reg Calf or the Porto). I have driven the Calf, the Calf 30, F12, 812, and the Porto, and for every day use I'd go with the T, but I choose cars for different reasons, and my T has over 100 more HP and TQ than it came from the factory with. I am sorry but I don't get the Calf 30 fascination on here, these are GT cars, and they can handle any legal maneuver (and most of the not so legal ones) that a driver will ask it to do. I felt nothing special about the 30, then again my experiences with cars are probably different than most peoples.
     
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  10. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    The CaliT feels and sounds more like a German sports sedan when you drive it while the Cali30 HS feels and sounds like a proper classic Italian sports car. The tuning of the engines in the two cars are completely different. The T feels sedate, predictable and competent but a bit dead while my 30 feels alive and playful, much more organic, unpredictable but in a good way. The HELE option in my 30 may actually be contributing to this character. There’s no comparison at all when it comes to sound. When I drive my 30 with gusto it sounds like a track car (actually too loud for some tracks). There is way too much sound deadening in the T for my liking while my 30 always sounds like a Ferrari (my modified 30 sounds much more Ferrari than almost all Ferraris) even when it’s idling, with the engine feeling nervous like a race car’s when it’s just ticking over.

    Part of the difference in ownership difference between the 30 and the T also lies in the preferences of the owner/driver. If you like visceral cars, there’s no comparison between the 30 and the T but if you prefer the feel of competent business-like cars, e.g. Porsches, the T is a close approximation of those cars. One is more organic while the other is more robotic. The power in the NA Calis is linear while the T does exhibit a turbo rush when you rev the engine closer to 7000. You do need to crank any flat plane V8 above 3000 to wake it up and the wail of the NA Cali is literally spine-tingling when you blow by a slower car in 4th gear at high revs. You can no longer get that in the turbo engines. My other car is a 675LT Spider which dynamically pretty well puts most road cars to shame except for the Pista. While my modded 30 cannot challenge the LT’s handling (still working on that) both cars do deliver similar visceral levels of excitement when driven hard. It’s always an occasion to get in and drive both cars and that’s the main reason why I own them.
     
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  11. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Karting

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    I completely agree. I don't get the Cali 30 thing either - but I do like sports cars that are focused.
    I just don't think the Cali and Cali 30 are very nice driving cars - and I've experienced both on track. They are too harsh and busy for the roads, and they are too heavy, flexy and underpowered for the track.
    Sure, anything can be modified, but I guess that's a bit besides the point. If you want to stiffen things up, the T is still the better platform as the base chassis is stiffer and less flexible.
    An unmodified T will run rings around an unmodified Cali 30, and the same goes if both cars are modified.
    I simply don't get the Cali nor the Cali 30. Sports car or GT, they simply seem overall unfocused and unfinished to me.
    If I wanted a Cali T as a pure GT, I'd leave it as is. And if I wanted a more tempramental Cali, I'd still get a T but add Novitec suspension, exhaust ,Pista Spider wheels with F12 front MPSS tyres and 458 Italia MPSS rear tyres, and an agressive ECU tune. That would make for a pretty stout sports GT.
    It's all about what one wishes to do, but I will always stay firm on my belief that the T is a far superior platform and package.
     
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  12. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior
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    Thats because both of you are disregarding the Cali30 Handling Speciale package. It's sorts all those issues and brings a car with classic lines and great sound. My Cali30 HS on Novitec Springs will out handle a T all day. You also have the fact the turbo Ferrari's sound like muffled artificial garbage. The N/A cars will appreciate one day while the FI cars will be just another model year. In the end it seems you don't keep your cars long so just buy the car you can beat on daily and leave the N/A cars to someone who will appreciate it more. The T is a perfect model for what you're looking for. You already have the 812 as a N/A beast keeper anyway.
     
  13. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Karting

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    Not so.
    The Cali 30 I refer to, include the HS. I don't think the 30HS solved the issues. And while a Cali 30 HS with the Novitec setup will corner better than a stock Cali T, a Cali T with the Novitec suspension will out manoeuvre the Novitec fitted Cali 30 HS, and still ride better and smoother than the 30 HS.
     
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  14. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior
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    Fixed it for ya lol.
     
  15. tomc

    tomc F1 World Champ

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    I think part of the attraction of the Cali30 on F-chat may be due to the fact that it is newer and, anecdotally, it's a few more years removed from the DTC sensor issue that cropped up in the 1st gen cars. Plus, what's not to like about 30 less kg and 30 more hp? ;)..T
     
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  16. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota Karting

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    Haha, well that's subjective buddy :)

    I'm actually not a huge fan of neither the430, 458 and Cali sound. I absolutely adore the 355 and 360 sound, but the later four valve engines have a sound that to me, is quite monotone and very synthesized While the Cali and Cali 30 emits a high pitch noise, that is what it kind of is to me, a noise. It's not really a natural full bodied roar, as much as a somewhat thin and odd unnatural sound. An uncorked F355, 360CS or 458 GT3 is high pitched as well, but it's also heavy, raw and natural, you can feel it physically.

    Sorry to stray off topic, but that's just me :)
     
  17. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    Modern Ferraris behave and sound very different when driven at their limits vs just being driven on public road speeds. So, forgive me if I'm wrong but I don't think you've driven Calis that hard.

    BTW, to be accurate Ferraris don't make noise per se, they sing. It's AMGs that make crappy unrefined noises. Ferraris like the Cali sound incredible when you are WOT at near redline and it's not the high pitch "noise" you allude to. My car wails like an NA V8 F1 car. It is a piercing spine-tingling wail and leaves you wondering what happened. Don't ask me why I have had to drive my car that hard on those occasions.

    IMO, my car currently sounds better than the F355, 360CS. I know because I was on a Ferrari-organized ride with them and I had to hold back so as not to come across as being obnoxious. The only other car that rivaled mine was what appears to have been a modded Gallardo Super Trofeo Stradale (it was lowered, had the big wing, huge pipes, satin paintjob, even extra cooling panels). We were about the same noise level but with different sound qualities, his obviously V10, mine V8. Everyone else was just background. People standing near my car jumped when I revved it in neutral. It has a deep booming mechanical crackle, and sorry to say it sounds way better than even the LaF.

    However, to be fair, IMO Ferrari is quite capable of making any of their cars sound as good or even better, but they always have to make their cars to appeal to a broad public because cars that are too loud, like mine, are unusable for almost all customers. Many tracks would not allow cars like mine to go WOT or even do cold starts because it can be so loud and obnoxious.

    I think you don't get the appeal of Calis because you don't understand Ferrari marketing. The Cali was designed to make the Ferrari experience attainable for THOUSANDS of non-Ferrari (1st time) owners, people who have never had or contemplated Ferrari ownership. So unmodified Calis will always defer to way less obnoxiously-inclined owners. The car will remain soft and easy to keep to lower sound levels. This is why I tell people that if they never mod their cars, they will always be limited to this broad-appeal marketing product. This also explains the traditionally light steering common to all modern Ferraris - they allow for anyone to steer without strain or tiring them out. They are not set up for the track.

    A knowledgeable driver knows what he/she wants and if that person understands the physics, mechanics and product offerings in the aftermarket, they can make the Cali a MORE FOCUSED CAR. Focus means more narrowly-defined, and this context, it means more narrowly-defined to WHAT YOU WANT. You can also define focus to mean weekend track car and the Cali will work the role if you mod and prep it accordingly. It won't ever be as good a track car as some other cars but I've driven mine on track as just a Cali30 HS and it did fine. After the track, I can drop the roof and enjoy my 2-hour countryside drive home.

    Actually Fireman1291 made some very nice videos of his car and the video in this post is fantastic. As you probably know, it's extremely difficult to capture quality sound so this video is testament not only to the incredible sound of his Cali30 but also to his skills with onboard video/audio capture.
     
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  18. lucasines

    lucasines Rookie

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  19. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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  20. Fireman1291

    Fireman1291 Formula Junior
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  21. Carnut

    Carnut F1 Rookie
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    I drove three of my cars yesterday the T, my 718 Cayman (the gearshift one that has lots of modifications) and my 997 (that one is one of a kind only a crazy person builds a car with 335K worth of mods) that weighs 2312 lbs has over 650hp and no traction controls. The 718 is truly remarkable in my opinion the best sports car under 100K, maybe even under 200K. It is almost impossible to do anything on the street that this car cannot handle. It is so good it can be boring. The 997 well I go around most curves in a slide, you need two hands and total concentration to stay alive in that thing. If my hearing was not almost gone it would be after an hour in that thing. Both of those cars are sticks, then I get into the T. Now OP asked about everyday driving so I am not going to talk about the track because these cars are not what I'd pick or want to drive on a track. In the T I felt relaxed (I had the power at stock level, I can control it with an app), it sounds a little better than stock with the Capristo, but you still need to get the revs up high to hear anything (though I am as I said loosing my hearing), and compared to the two Porsche's very quiet, and much more relaxed. It is sporty when need be but when I hear the words everyday driving, I don't have an image of tires screeching, going around corners at over 1g. The T is a great car (I also have a Maserati Gran Turismo MC which is in my opinion more high strung than the T), for what it is. It gives you the it is a Ferrari feel in a comfortable package. Now you can argue the old guy is missing the point, but am I. You see everyone bases their opinions on a car by their own experiences and not many have mine, and probably no one sees them without any emotion and as just machines.
     
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  22. tfazio

    tfazio Formula 3
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    I have driven various California T's, California's (although never a 30) and a few Maserati Gran Turismo Convertibles and Coupe. I think the Cali T is by far the best overall car out of the three. It costs considerably more though. Roughly $40-50K more than Non-Cali 30. The California is a good buy right now. It is a fun car to drive that sounds good as well. You can even update the infotainment unit to a more modern Ferrari approved Apple Car Play Touchscreen unit that is integrated to work with all the steering wheel controls as well (A backup camera can be added as well.)

    The Maserati's all sound great but they seem very heavy and big which is not surprising since they are :) They are still nice cars that have room for 2 adults in the back which the Cali T and Cali cannot offer.
     
  23. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    I think where you miss the point is that the T, as a Ferrari, no longer sounds special anymore. It does not sound or feel like a Ferrari. Its electronic traction control, software nannies also do the driving for you while filtering out the road feel and mechanical noises. What do you think Porsche was trying to recapture with the 911R? What are Mercedes and Tesla trying to do with their nannies and assisted driving aids, self-driving cars? What does Ferrari represent in the sports car industry? I would admit the T offers Porsche feel under a Ferrari skin but what if you are not looking for an increasingly dull everyday car ownership experience? You cannot make the T feel or sound any more visceral.

    At the same time, the 30 HS, properly equipped with lightweight rims, will accelerate as fast as any of the other Ferraris including the T, at legal speeds, also stop better than most while still sounding like a classic Ferrari. Add the Capristo sport muffler like in your T and Novitec sport springs, the 30 HS becomes the perfect everyday NA engine sports car, ...convertible Ferrari. It delivers the perfect everyday 1-car Ferrari ownership experience. It offers a controllable level of excitement, traditional Ferrari sensations, that can be used and enjoyed on any drive. You can make the 30 HS feel and sound as tame or as raw as you like.
     
  24. Avia11

    Avia11 Karting
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    The Cali T HS is the best all-around Ferrari you can buy.
     
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  25. 4th_gear

    4th_gear F1 Rookie
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    #25 4th_gear, Jun 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019
    Actually, what we have here are 2 cars of the same lineage, being screwed by the global cabal, using a fake claim that humans, a carbon-based lifeform along with cow farts are causing global warming and calamities. BTW, according to (unfudged) scientific data, the planet actually been cooling down from a hot spell for almost 200 years. But I digress. At any rate:

    One car being discussed is one of the 2 NA cars that Ferrari was FORCED by the BS Global carbon crisis cabal to STOP MAKING, even though Ferrari indicated it would have much preferred to continue making NA V8 cars.

    The other is a car (actually 1 of the 2 cars) that Ferrari did not want to make but was FORCED by "...the BS Global carbon crisis cabal to make" - READ the China Market (re the 4.0L engine capacity cap) as part of that cabal. How wise is it to agree with this choice when Ferrari disagrees? Do you live in China, with its diesel and crappy factory air pollution problems? Do you prefer to buy China-spec'd cars?​

    Would you also say a turbo V12 would improve the NA V12? Ferrari says "....HELL NO!". Lambo says the same BTW. So why are you in effect, agreeing?

    The truth is that Ferrari could make more cars with NA engines but they would have to use CF monocoques, use smaller NA engines and there would be a very big price to pay regarding their commitment to aluminium fabrication. In addition, people have been drunken by their silly obsession with large HP numbers, something which is completely or at least increasingly more and more useless on public roads. Case in point is the SF90 and its erstwhile competitors. They are at best halo cars, garage queens, too powerful, too impractical and too expensive to be driven on public roads.

    When a car sounds interesting and entertaining, you don't have to explore its other assets to get any enjoyment and risk losing your license or get taken to the cleaners by your insurers, especially true if you own more than 1 car. It's like chatting with a partner who speaks with an enchanting voice, in addition to having an open mind and a passionate old-fashioned heart vs someone else with a dull voice, a clinical nanny mind and a strong but robotically efficient heart.
     

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