Decisions on my first ferrari - 488 / f8

Your opinion! When I drove the F8 even though much faster and overhall a better automobile the emotion was not there. You feel alive in the 458, in the F8 you feel fast. Anyway, all *****cats when compared with a GTE race car.

 

"Raw" in the context of motoring is really not applicable to a 458, F8 or GTB. These are all DD cars, the later (F8) being the more easier to live with as a DD. The rest is just noise.

 

Nostalgia or the reluctance to spend significantly more on a new F car, seems to have created this fondness for the 458. Personally , the aesthetics which some categorize as simple and elegant, is precisely why it does not have personal appeal. The lines are overly simplistic without the complexity and super car edge that defines the nature of the beast. The front of the car is downright ugly. That moustache look is not only unresolved and completely lacking in conformity to the appearance of the rest of the car, it significantly diminishes the overall design aesthetic. The 458 performance was competitive when it was introduced, but it no longer is today. It is claimed by its adherents to offer a more compelling and engaging driving experience. Arguably, that perception is more a function of its lacking the technical capabilities of the latest super cars than it is a result of its driving dynamics being raw and requiring greater driver experience and expertise to realize its performance potential. Perhaps, many fancy the objective flaws and interpret that as the 458 having more soul and personality.

 

Agreed. I think if one really think a 458 Italia is "raw", then the measure of what defines rawness is off somehow. For the 458 Spider even less so as that car has been set up with the softest and least raw chassis of any of the 4X8 cars including the F8.

A CS and GT3RS are fairly raw and barebone, but still street cars with some kind of comfort. But I'm perfectly fine with defining them as raw. They do feel pretty raw on a track and communicate well. A 458 is nothing like that. Yes it has some loudness and the few "quirks" Ferrari built in to enhance the experience, but yes, super comfy and buttery smooth. Want raw in a street car? Go drive a Cayman GT4 H&R coilovers, a triple disc clutch w. lightweight flywheel and a camshaft upgrade - that's raw.

A 458 is not raw, not by a long shot. This is what I like about the Pista. Take it on track, and it actually starts to bare its teeth in a way that takes you back to some of the CS rawness and old school supercar madness. The 458 has the high revving engine, but a high revving engine does not equal raw, especially when that high revving engine is not very explosive nor rough in its power delivery. In some ways I find the 488 or F8 to be more visceral despite its high comfort level. The power and torque on tap means you have to be more careful and respect the car more. Like all the 458 versions including the VS cars, they are fairly easy to drive fast on the street. The comfort and relaxed style put you at ease and makes it easy to focus, and the car does not feel skittish. A Pista is a whole different animal. Like older less refined cars it will make you work and sweat when you try to push it on the street, and that has a significant impact on how raw a car feels. But also, to call a Pista raw? Nah, raw'ish, but still not full on raw. I think a word like "wild" suits it better, and so does "fun". But raw is reserved for actual raw cars and few street cars can proudly carry this badge of honour.

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Agree.

Antiquated engineering is crude and should not be confused with raw or wild. A louder or more emotional engine sound does not turn crude into raw either.

Just because antiquated engineering is making the car fight against the driver does not make the experience more emotional or fun.

Better to have the engineering fight FOR the driver.

Rawness is best described as having a pure form of connection with the drivers senses - a superior connection which works WITH the driver providing a heightened driving experienced at all levels.

 

Exactly !!!! Boy you have a great ability to put it in words. At least I can admit i love my 488 GTB but would love to get a F8 if it wasn't for the Delta.

 

The OP is asking about The 488 and F8. He is not asking anything about a 458. Why do all these turn into get a 458 or 458 is better?

 

The OP is not required to ask about the 458. He will be told about it regardless of whether he likes to hear about it or not. And then he will be beaten over the head with it until he agrees it is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Haha. Exactly!

 

For the record. I’m not bashing the 458. It’s an awesome machine. I was just pointing out that not every thread where a 488 is being discussed should turn into 458 owners saying 458 is better. Even when the 458 is not even the topic. That’s all.

 

Because every time someone asks about getting a 488, the 458 cult feel obligated to let us know that the 458 is the best car ever made?

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I thoroughly enjoyed the 2 years of my 488 ownership. With the market last fall, I was having trouble with the delta to get the F-8 which really looks better but does not have the sound quality of my 488. The decision has to be yours and the cars drive similar with slight edge of acceleration towards the F-8. Could I have been happy just keeping my 488, absolutely.

 

Here's the circle I'm running right now: I love my 458... I do like the looks and updated A/V of the F8 but it is so smooth and sounds like a 911TT (in a bad way), but I could spec it exactly like my dream car.

But then I think of the price difference and all of the things that could be instead:

• 458 + vacation home (or $$ downpayment on one),
  
• 458 + FF/599/manual 430,
  
• 458 + used Mulsanne or Ghost for daily,
  
• 458 + manual Vantage,
  
• 458 + boat/any other motorized toy, etc.

The $160k difference is a lifetime's worth of recreation and/or vacation experiences. Granted that wouldn't be totally out of pocket since it wouldn't depreciate that fast, but easily $100k in 3 years. So I for now I keep concluding that the value added is not $160k more than the 458.

 

Keep the 458 for now and wait a year and buy it for 50k+ off. Get a manual GT3 as 2nd car or your vaca house for now.

 

All this makes sense but at 56 YO I have NEVER bought a second hand car. Don't care even if it was cheaper , better spec , zero mileage , yadda yadda. I just wont. My name will be the one on the books.

 

No one cares

 

I wouldn't expect anyone to care other than the person taking that position to only buy new, but there is nothing quite like buying new even though there is a price attached to that. I kinda subscribe to that myself - buying new only - even though I have purchased used cars in my less fortunate days. I guess it mainly comes down to money and/or how much compromise one is prepared to accept. Frankly when I see how some cars are driven in many cases, it only serves as further motivation for me to only buy new and pay whatever it costs unless the previous history can be 100% fully established to my satisfaction.

With Ferrari's and many exotic brands, seeing how little they are usually driven over the first term of ownership, where the history can be properly established I would see merit in taking advantage of the significant saving particularly knowing now just how much these mainstream models depreciate. But insofar as buying a car that has had multiple owners of unknown quantity then I'm out. I wouldn't care how cheap it is. It'd be like marrying a whore.

 

I’m from a different generation, I can’t wait x months for a car, no way or patience for that. Has nothing to do with money. When you were my age an exotic car was quite rare and special, today almost anyone can have one. Hypercars are still rare and are the equivalent of supercars in your younger days.
Where I live, if you go to downtown in the summer it’s impossible not to see hypercars daily (I guess like in London). The other day a Konig eheh

 

This is not a generational issue at all. Money and/or a willingness to compromise are the two key drivers no matter how old you are. Why would anyone buy a used car if a brand new one was available and they were awash with disposable income and, had all their ducks in a row?

An older person is more likely than a younger person to buy used if they have to wait for a build and don't have time on their side to wait around for the new one.

I hear many say they can afford anything they want, when they want, BUT if it involves compromising what they currently have or, liquidating a need - like a home or reducing an existing lifestyle habit in any way shape or form to be able to buy a car, then it does't count.

 

6, 9, 12 even 16 months for a car?! Really?! I just can’t do it....

regarding buying whatever they want car whise, be careful... there are levels to this game. Most people in here could buy a pista? I would say 80% could, especially with leasings everything is possible.
For me when I say some people here can buy whatever car they want I mean those guys that can buy a LAF, P1 and 918 and doesn’t even faze them. I’m quite sure you couldn’t do it, me neither.

Also, when you say only people with real money buy new how about a friend that bought a Ferrari F1 and is checking F40’s and those types of cars? They are all used so he’s poorer than you?

 

No. You are confusing what I've said. It is not a money or rich contest between you, me or anyone else in particular here. Generally people with a lot of disposable income - income which is not otherwise required to service normal outgoings or further increase real estate holdings - would only buy used when new is not available or, if time was not on their side to order and await a new car which could take an inordinate amount of time to materialize. Anyway, who cares? Those buying new generally don't unless they are aware of an impending beating which can be avoided.

 

In my case I ordered a new F8 because I love the car and I wanted to spec it to my exact liking. I don’t mind waiting because I currently have a 458 spider which I absolutely love. Win/Win

 

I can even tell you something my friend, the real big ballers are going back to the goldies. F40, F50, 360cs, scuderia etc...
Even I find myself at a crossroad, cars with emotion are done, I have one of the last (you have 3, but some argue one eheh) so if emotion is not available I want speed, I mean ultimate speed and for that electric cars are the Kings. We are waiting for the new Tesla S Plain that should come with 1100hp. And this is a family car, can you imagine the roadster?! Even the McLaren equivalent of the SF 90 will be much slower than the full electric model that will replace it.
So I honestly I’m not super excited for the next generations of cars, yes super fast but also boring... hence the ones of us who can go for goldies not oldies.

 

You should keep the 458 and add the F8, you will regret it...!

 

Well I could have bought my first Ferrari back when the 458 was released
But IMO just didn’t like it
I waited for the next model the 488GTB
I could have received it earlier buying a flip but it didn’t suit me
I had to have new with everything I buy and I wanted to go through the joy of the process
That’s me
But if I was wanting a car out of production obviously there would be compromises say a F40 etc and even then I would be talking to the original owner