Defender 90. Thoughts?

Hey all,

I'm debating putting a '94 D90 in the garage, alongside my current Range Rover 4.6HSE. I've always liked the G-Wagen-esque ruggedness of the Defender and I hear they're pretty unstoppable on the greenlanes, but I know they are susceptible to bad rot and canvas tops wearing thin. But does anyone here on the forum have one and can you offer some insight? I use my Range Rover to pull my flatbed trailer when the mood strikes to purchase another old sports car but I assume because of the short wheelbase of the D90 (the one in question is the "convertible"), I won't be able to pull any trailers with it? Not to mention 3.9 litres of already boat anchor-like Rover V8 versus my current 4.6 lump in the RR won't make for good towing torque. But where I have witnessed the Defender shine, firsthand, was when one (equipped with lockers) pulled my stuck-as-hell Range Rover out of about three feet of sloppy mud on our last Land Rover Club outing. Thoughts fellas?

 

Have you driven one? I considered buying one about 10 years ago. I drove it down the block, turned around and came back. For the money it was very spartan, loud, noisy and rode like my old Jeep CJ-7. I hated it.

 

I was the sales manager at a LR dealership in 1999/2000 for one year. We were owned by a big MB store and I got sent there to fill a vacancy........I hated every minute of it.......but I have great respect for D90's of every stripe.

I sold about 6-7 used ones in that period.......if you can live with the oil leaks, wind noise, driveline noise, water leaks, and rough ride they are unreal off-road rigs.....they also look cool on the street......but they are rust buckets if not well cared for.

I love them.....make mine yellow please.

 

I was a huge Land Rover nut until I bought my LR3 (but that is a whole other thread). My brother had a Defender about ten years ago. I once saw the car idle (no foot on gas or clutch), clear over a tree stump in first gear (low range). Name me another car that could pull of that stunt. A Defender is the ultimate off roading car. It is so good, I doubt many people will experience its full potential. It is to off roading what the F-40 is to sports cars. We did some serious hard core driving with that thing and it was simply epic. My brother also used it as his daily driver and it was pretty reliable (until his girlfriend wrapped it around a tree at 40mph and totaled it). I have nothing but love for that car and they are holding their value like few other things. We bought his in 95(?) for 30 grand. Had he kept it and drove it 50 thousand miles, he could have sold it today for what he paid for it...amazing.

Get one just for the experience of owning one. It is such a marvelous one dimensional purpose built machine, you'll feel like Indiana Jones even when you are just driving to the convenience store.

BTW, a Discovery is an amazing off roading truck with much of the same hardware for a fraction of the cost and much more amenities--the best SUV I ever owned.

 

I don't want to turn F-chat into an offroading forum, but there are any number of trucks that can match a D90 offroad. Yes, it's very good but so are many Jeeps, Toyotas, etc. And that's not even gettting into the purpose-built offroad rigs.

Yes, a D90 is good offroad, and yes, very few owners will realize its full potential. I just thought the F40 hyperbole was a bit much.

 

Yes, but keep it in context. When the Defender 90 was out, jeeps still had leaf springs and the Defender 90 -stock-- had 13 inches of suspension travel, enormous wheel articulation front and back, live axles front and back, and 11 inch disc brakes all around. It also had an aluminum body with an an aluminum power plant for low weight, locking differentials and exceptionally low gearing. You cannot explain the Defender 90 to someone until they experience it for themselves in its element, they can just do things others simply can't. A defender 90 was used by military units all over the world in some of the most inhospitable places. It also ruled Africa and can still be found in parts of the world where normal SUV's would simply fall apart. I have seen Defender 90's with over a hundred thousand miles of HARD off road travel. Almost any other stock truck faced with the same conditions would simply fall apart.

Until very recently, Bone stock there was nothing that could touch a Defender 90, and that includes a hummer h2--brother had one which pretty much disentegrated and an FJ cruiser--again stock. Of course, now there is the Rubicon,which is probably the closest thing to a Defender 90, but even with almost 50 years of development, it can only match it. That says a ton about a truck that hardly changed in almost 40 years. So I will stick by my hyperbole on this one. There will always be off roading rigs like modified CJ7's etc, just like there were tweaked 911's that could rock the F40. That being said, when the Defender 90 was out, there was no real competition. The Land Cruiser had already morphed into a Range Rover wannabe, and Isuzu, Mitsubishi, etc where all pretty much building derivatives of the same design. I had a Montero, Wrangler, etc, great trucks, but not in the same league.

Now of course, we have the Jeep Rubicon, but short of that, there is really nothing stock that is comparable to a Defender 90, save maybe the Hummer H1--but try driving that down a narrow trail.

 

I'm not going to turn this into a pissing match, but several Jeeps and Toyotas can do everything a D90 can. And they're actually pleasant to drive on the roads, which is something the Defender cannot say.

But hey, if you want one go for it. It's not my money.

 

My cousin had one. Had more trouble than a british car . . .oops, forgot this is the british section. Many electrical gremlins and leaked oil everywhere.

 

Not me either. My time for cars like that is behind me. They closed the local off-road park last year and Defender's are not exactly family friendly. I didn't mean to get in a pissing match with you on this either. We are just going to have to agree to disagree. I will say this, though, Land Rovers are one of the few cars whose reputation is justly deserved. There is a reason they have such an incredibly loyal following despite consistently building vehicles at or near the bottom of all major reliability indexes. If you ever get a chance to look at a Defender under a lift, I promise you that you will be very impressed at how overbuilt they are...IMHO, they are the gold standard for STOCK off roading vehicles.

 

It is British after all, did you expect anything less? ...all of our LR's have been bulletproof, but horror stories abound. Of course, I imagine that any one on a FERRARI board is somewhat accustomed to electrical gremlins and oil leaks...it just goes with the territory.

IMHO, there is a direct correlation between vehicle character and reliability issues.

 

I agree. I just think Toyotas and Jeeps have a well earned reputation as well is all...

Have a good one.

 

Thanks for the input guys. I will certainly agree with some of the points that Land Rovers are known to be troublesome vehicles, but also, as mentioned, they have the proverbial "cult" following. The other board I frequent is rangerovers.net and you'd never believe how many RR enthusiasts there are out there until you have a look at that board. Everything from the old County models to the current Mk.III and IV have their loyal followers, despite their quirks. I've always loved Land Rovers, specifically Range Rovers, for their comfort and in all honesty, their pretty impressive off-road prowess for being a large SUV. They have better approach and departure angles than their competition and the old models (P38A and previous) are built in the old-school body-on-frame way and with their beam axles, provide more degrees of suspension articulation than any of their competitors (Toyota, Lexus, etc..) with the possible exception of the Gelandewagen, which I'd categorize in D90 territory anyways. And yes, the D90's resale value has held amazingly well, although the same can also be said for the older G-Wagens (i.e. Europa Intn'l imported models). I'm not much of a camping type of guy, but I do enjoy taking my Rangie off-roading just as much as I enjoy putting my sports cars on closed tracks...it's all relative. Of course the biggest enjoyment I get out of using my Rangie for what it was made for is after a good, dirty session on the 'greenlanes', when I pull into the country club with it filthy, they all stand and gawk at it like they've just seen a UFO land

Well, I'll keep everyone posted. I'm in negotiations with the seller as we speak.

Cheers,
Aaron

 

You definitely get the Rover thing. The Rover crew is as fanatical as the Ferrari crew. And you are right, the only way to really appreciate a Rover is in its element. Otherwise, all the quirks don't make sense. Good luck with the Defender...I hope it works out!

 

+1. I drove one at the dealer when they were available new. Granted, I'm not an offroader, just lived in the snow belt east of Cleveland at the time.

But, Aaron seems to be good with a wrench and knows what he's getting into. So it might fit the bill for him. To me, it's another hobby car, and I only need one of those at a time.

 

Jon,

LOL, if you lived east of Cleveland, you know all about nasty winter weather! I grew up in Cleveland and recall having school when there was over 52" of snow piled up on the sidewalks! But I guess you've long since forgotten that weather out there in San Diego!

Yeah, I guess I'm rather handy with a wrench. 10 years or so of formal Mercedes-Benz training ain't for nothin! although various Ferraris and English cars have put my will to the test time and time again throughout the years.

 

Did some work for Rover back in my BMW days and the Defenders we had (110s) felt odd and had a strange seating position IMO. The vehicle really had a cult following and while we were promoting the Disco and the Range Rover people would always yell out "Nice Defender!" I always thought to myself i guess you've never driven one.

Nothing against who likes 'em but the appeal is lost on me.

Oh BTW.. the guys that would come over at our events and talk about the Defenders would always say the 110s had improvements over the 90s.

 

52 inches of snow was a lot, and IIRC it got worse when winter arrived.

 

I had a '94 Defender 90 and while it was the worst driving car I have ever had I loved the thing and I am sorry it is gone. The D90 is a fun truck but it is in no way practical here is what you will have to put up with:

The car drives horrible...which makes it kind of fun...you really have to reach for the gear leaver...the pedals are in the wrong place along with pretty much everything else inside the car.

There are lots of sharp edges...I have torn at least three pairs of pants between my 88'' series II and my D90.

The soft top is impossible to put on by your self and near impossible with two people...this is at least a half hour job.

The car does have locks but you can slide the windows open from the outside of the car and just open the door from the inside.

The interior trim is probably going to fall off.

The body is actually made out of real aluminum so the body work is very thick and very soft so even the lightest of bumps will dent it.

It cost me twice the price of a fully loaded Wrangler when it was new and it came with no amenities at all.

The upside though is that the car is built different than most cars in its class. It is built like a house...there is a frame and then they wrap the body work around it...where a FJ40 a G and a Wrangler have a frame and then they just plop a body on top...

The defender is a very tough car you can put bad gas in it and it will still run. There is no sound dampening so every time you use the clutch you get these wonderful clunk sounds. And if you really off road it the car is made from aluminum so it wont rust.

Having done a fair amount of offroading in Land Cruisers and Land Rovers I will say that if I am actually trying to get somewhere a Land Cruiser would be my preference because when you are really offroading things are going to fall off and a FJ40 for instance, it uses about 4 different sized screws in its entire construction where a Land Rover uses a million different ones. So if something that is important falls off in a TLC you can just take off the bumper and reattach that crucial item.

Anyway I highly recommend a D90...they are wonderful cars and if you can put up with its falts you will definitely enjoy it.

 

I had a light weight landie and a series III and it was fun to drive it in summer. I agree that the soft top was a pain!!!.
The engine was rock solid and mine was a diesel. It was fun driving it around , but not very practical if you have to have a dress code to work. Its a lovely truck for off roading, and I simply love it.

 

Depends on cost. If the dealer pays you $10-12K to tow the Range Ruster off his lot ( to help with impending mechanical issues consistent with the marque) then you might be okay, but try and get him to give you $15k.

 

Had deposit on the brand new version, test drove it, forfeited the deposit. Can't imagine the older version being any nicer to drive. Looks great and appeal to hard core, but for daily comfort, there are better choices. good luck.

 

buy a jeep at half the price........

 

Joe, Just a little humor, as I have 2 british (65 XKE and a 69 TVR) + the Ferrari so yep I am quite familiar w/the electrical and oil spoting thing. Happy New Year.

 

Happy New year to you..I just realized that I forgot to put the wink icon in my previous post...I didn't mean for it to come off serious. With those cars in your stable you must definitely be familiar with the wonders of British electronics. Like you, I just love British and Italian cars. Whatever they may lack in reliability they make up for in personality, especially the classics. Please post more pictures when you get the chance...Would love to see that stable!