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DELTA WING IndyCar IRL Proposed 2012 Car

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by RP, Feb 10, 2010.

  1. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    #1 RP, Feb 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
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  3. Chris-CXC Simulations

    Chris-CXC Simulations Formula Junior

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    I just can't see this happening..... It looks like the Batmobile!

    I find it amazing that this is the design that some of the major teams are backing.
     
  4. phdev

    phdev Formula Junior

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    Is it really? I don't know anything about them... i'm surprised though, since the front wheels are so close together it looks about as stable as a drag car
     
  5. Chris-CXC Simulations

    Chris-CXC Simulations Formula Junior

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    From AutoSport.com:

    "The DeltaWing programme has generated huge anticipation as it was long-rumoured to be the most radical of the concepts vying for the IndyCar deal, and because it is backed by a number of leading teams, having been designed by Chip Ganassi Racing's Ben Bowlby, formerly Lola's chief designer."

    I too found it surprising that this thing will be stable in all the types of racing that IndyCar does now (oval, road course and street course). I guess I'm just going to have to trust them on that one.
     
  6. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    #5 RP, Feb 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    And 235 MPH from a 4 cylinder!! I don't think the IRL needs faster cars, they are a blur now at some of the ovals. I think they need cars capable of close racing without the immense danger of open wheels touching.

    So I like the partially enclosed wheel concept, but nothing this radical as the DeltaWing. I much prefer the Swift version (right photo) that looks like an updated version of Mickey Thompson's pancake car from 1963 (left photo) and 1964:
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  8. GoFerrari28

    GoFerrari28 Formula 3

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    Having the two front tires so close together would make it somewhat unstable in turns, and it would either understeer like crazy or would roll over if the inside rear tire came off the ground even a little through a corner.. Leave this design for the quarter mile.
     
  9. TooTall

    TooTall Karting

    Sep 15, 2006
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    That was my first thought as well but it has the same amount of tire contact area. The Tyrrell 6-wheeler had a relatively narrow front track and by all accounts handled well. I know, I look at it and think it can't work. The narrow front track just seems counter-intuitive. But it's a radical idea and I tend to like radical ideas. I say let Swift, Lola, Delta and Dallara each build a car and then have a shoot out. And the fans should get a vote as well. I do like Bowlby's idea of fuel flow restriction. Could make for a simple rule book. The car has to measure no more than LxWxH and use no more than x ccs of fuel per second. Everything else outside of safety issues are free.

    Cheers,
    Kurt O.
     
  10. yzee

    yzee F1 Veteran
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    Delta wing is a wing when viewed from above looks like a triangle such as an delta wing aircraft. Delta coming from the upper case greek sign for Delta. A triangle. You remember the Delta Delta guys.

    As I sit here reviewing a new product at the request of a sales rep I see it has 3 delta shaped wings as an internal mixing device. Hmmm.

    I'm sure Bowlby has more car design experience than any of us but I'm like RP. I don't know if I'm ready for 25 of these going by. You have to keep the racing public's interest. I paid less attention to F1 last year because of those hideous wings.
     
  11. GoFerrari28

    GoFerrari28 Formula 3

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    The Tyrrell p34 had almost the same track width at the front as other F1 cars, but by doubling the number of tires while making the fronts smaller to reduce their frontal area, they were able to compensate. The very same instability that caused the 3-wheel ATV's to flip over would also apply here, albeit in a very less pronounced manner in a straight line, but cornering would pose the same problems.
     
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  13. fc_11

    fc_11 Karting

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    somewhat unstable is an understatement. this thing would handle horribly. it would basically have to come to a stop at every corner. moronic design and a total waste of money for the backers.
     
  14. Bill Sawyer

    Bill Sawyer Formula 3

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    I like the innovative thinking of the designs that are emerging, but I wish they would let them run against each other rather than pick a spec car. That would re-establish Indy as the center of unbridled innovation and techical breakthroughs. As spec cars, even the most innovative design will become commonplace in a few years.
     
  15. dmnwlf

    dmnwlf Rookie

    Dec 22, 2007
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    Personally, I remember the Delta Delta Delta girls from OU.
    Anyway, I like the look, completely different and unique from any other series. My assumption is the designer(s) has/have used CFD to design the car and more CFD and wind tunnel tests will be done to insure the car delivers what the designer promises (close racing, minimal turbulence for cars following, etc.). I can envision the Marlboro colors, Target livery, etc. on the cars.
     
  16. GuyIncognito

    GuyIncognito Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    are they moving the 500 to the Bonneville salt flats?
     
  17. yzee

    yzee F1 Veteran
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    Well I use to give the Delta girls the ole Zol Zol Zol too. They were just from the OU in Ohio.

    Yep, I sayin this car hasn't been tested and is a big leap. Guy, I'm with you on the Salt Flats. But Bonneville is on my long list.
     
  18. TooTall

    TooTall Karting

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    The track of the 1976 P34 is listed as 1160mm while the track of the contemporary McLaren M23 was 1660mm and the Ferrari 312T was 1510mm. So it was somewhat narrower but to nowhere near the degree of the Delta Wing car. I don't think the comparison to 3-wheeled ATVs is completely valid. The ATVs had relatively short wheelbases and very high center of gravity, especially with a rider aboard. Heck, those things could fall over standing still! The Delta Wing looks to have the center of gravity well below the plain of the centerline of the wheels so I don't think it would have a strong tendency to flip. Granted, curb hopping the rear wheel could be interesting.

    What intrigues me now about the Delta car is how the front suspension is laid out. Are the front wheels independent or are they coupled in some sort of deDion arrangement. If independent then is it leading arm, trailing arm or what? And the steering, does each wheel have it's own pivot or is it a solid axle like a kids wagon. And, with the great discrepancy in the front and rear tracks how do they handle relative camber changes.

    Bowlby is a smart guy and Ganassi's track record over the past few years proves it. These obvious issues would have been worked out long ago. Of course it's possible that it's all a red herring, but to what end?

    I think it would be neat to build a technology demonstrator, maybe based on something simple like a Formula Ford, and see how it shakes out versus a conventional car. I wonder if the SCCA rule book has a minimum track for FF?

    Cheers,
    Kurt O.
     
  19. brian.s

    brian.s F1 Rookie
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    THis thing makes Ken Anderson seem normal.....
     
  20. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    #18 RP, Feb 12, 2010
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    You are correct, the Tyrrell was really not noticibly narrower than other F1 cars of that period. The DeltaWing is just strange. The more I look at it, the more I think it belongs in some Pixel movie.
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  21. william

    william F1 World Champ
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    Yeah, same feeling here.

    If that's the future, I may not bother to watch IRL ever again ...

    I though that Grand Am were ugly cars, but this ....

    Historic racing has never been more attractive these days!!
     
  22. TooTall

    TooTall Karting

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    That's the way I've felt for about the last 15 years!
     
  23. SMS

    SMS F1 Veteran

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    They must have hired a design team of 12 year olds.
     
  24. drjohngober

    drjohngober Formula 3
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    Danica will like it. Next thing you know, Nascar will put some ugly non-functional wing on their car... oops, already done that.
     
  25. robert_c

    robert_c F1 Rookie

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    Really? I find that hard to believe. What wing?
     
  26. yzee

    yzee F1 Veteran
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    New wing. Orders to smash into each other. Ought to be a good 500.
     
  27. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #25 tifosi12, Feb 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Couldn't agree more.

    It is currently on display at the Chicago auto show (opened today) where I took this shot. I was talking to the folks from Bridgestone and they were very proud of it. The car on display is a mockup, there is no engine, drivetrain etc. They had a computer simulation of the car on a monitor, but obviously that was just that, a simulation.

    For more info go to www.deltawingracing.com

    This is just one of the proposals for a new Indycar in 2012. I'm pretty sure this will not get selected for some of the reasons mentioned here already.
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