I just got the PPI back on this car: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2482595845&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT Prev thread: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24182 GOOD: High quality rebuild of engine, transmission and interior---- Perfect compression, fine gearbox, good carburation, smooth idle, plenty of power. Straight frame with no evidence of major accident, no structural rust. Interior mostly new and very nice. BAD: Dry rot rear susp bushings. Parking brake does not hold. Water pump leaks a little when cold. Valve cover gaskets leak significantly. Paint missing off of valve covers along with timing chain cover paint. Oil leak line to oil pressure gauge. Sun visors falling apart. Tach not working. Dash light rheostat not working correctly. wind screen washer not working. Heater blower motor noisy. Paint chips both rear fenders. RUST SPOTS bubbling on 4 panels!!! L rocker L Fender L Quarter R fender Drive door squeak. Battery bad. Multiple lights not working. The PPI sums it up as a #10" driver, not a show car. This car was advertised as Pristine, as Collector quality.... I estimate $7000 repairs, $5K body work and $2k mechanical, with me suppling the labor for most of the mechanical stuff. I have a $10,000 deposit on it, they say FIRM at $118,000.... Guys, give it to me straight, I really need honest opinions about this.
I would be most concerned with the rust, $5k sounds cheap if it has a problem, the bubbling is just what can be seen typically its much worse when you get into it, plus it has it on all corners, areas you cant see such as the window frames may have alot and could leak, this is unfortunate but typical for a Chicago car as they use salt on the roads, I learned the hard way. The mech stuff can be fixed but it's misleading and concerning with the ad saying pristine. I would pass on this one and get a sunbelt car or one that has very low miles.
The list on my '77 is probably that long! It's an old car. Hard call.....in ten years if you sort this car you'll be sitting with a Mint Julip under a shade tree with David Letterman swapping war stories at the concours......his Super America 4.0L was rusty too. $5K buys a lot of metal work in my neighborhood. If you paid to fix it all you'll be upside down until values rise. If you do it yourself as possible it'll make more sense. If you wait long enough for the "perfect" car you may not ever find one! A "sunbelt" car is one the somebody ELSE fixed the rust before you saw it, that's all...I've seen the factory photos of the period with frames, etc. stacked outdoors. These cars left the factory gates rusting! Go beat some money out of the seller, buy it, and go to work! From your transgender gay lesbian sexually ambiguous buddy, Speedy308
My take on the list- Dry rot rear susp bushings. - a decent sized job, but totally doable for you Parking brake does not hold. - usually an easy adjustment Water pump leaks a little when cold. - that could either be easy (tightening/or new gasket) or bad (if it is also leaking into the motor; does the oil look right?) Valve cover gaskets leak significantly. They all leak a little - buy a gasket set, take them off, do your own valve adjustment (inspecting the end of the adjusting screws while you're at it) and put the covers back on Paint missing off of valve covers along with timing chain cover paint. Someone in NC (Foreign Cars Italia?) will do a competent job on the crinkle paint - or if you have patience, an oven, and an understanding spouse, you can do it yourself and stink up the whole house. Oil leak line to oil pressure gauge. should be easy Sun visors falling apart. call Shaughnessy, Ohland, the usual suspects Tach not working. should be an easy fix at a competent shop if it is a problem at either end of the cable Dash light rheostat not working correctly. aren't they usually so dim that you need them on full anyway? wind screen washer not working. blocked line or shot pump motor - they're out there. Heater blower motor noisy. sounds minor Paint chips both rear fenders. RUST SPOTS bubbling on 4 panels!!! THE BIG ONE - I agree w/ atheyg - very problematic as you are only seeing the tip of the iceberg - and in any case, not "pristine" L rocker L Fender L Quarter R fender Drive door squeak. Battery bad. Multiple lights not working. a weekend w/ sandpaper on the grounds and maybe some new bulbs. the rust bubbles at all 4 corners would freak me out. you really don't know what's happeneing there, but it isn't good. there are many fish in the sea; or at least several hundred . . . .
Speedy, Man, I'm gutted over this, I'm feeling like throwing up... AND YOU CAN MAKE ME LAUGH! thanks! *For any one who missed this joke , check the thread: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24636
The 365 GTC Sheehan has looks as near perfect as can be. Can you stretch a little (another $25k) and buy the best? I'd walk away from this car at that price. Dr. Tax has the pricing right or even a little high.
If you think it will cost $10,000 it will cost $20,000. So then you have $138,000 in car that is still not fresh.... You need to pass on this car, $138,000 should by you a very fresh, restored GTC with a few dollars left over....
....who KNOWS where his number plates are! Good point on the Sheehan car....the $10K deposit was to HOLD the car, I'd think it'd be negoitaible as you've uncovered disparities with the condition as advertised. D@mn, needing a lawyer to buy a car kinda blows doesn't it. NO WONDER they are always the ones to end up with them. Any other high dollar buyers have advice?????
I just cannot forgive the 365 the grave transgression of not having wing vents. Shallow, aren't I? BTW, do you think this car would really be the best, or maybe it would show up some warts as well on close inspection?..
I agree with Chris. And Chris, sorry I never followed up on your lead for a car. I had a change in plans such that I need to put a vintage car on hold right now. Because I sold all my cars, I need to get a daily driver first! And Dr Gunboat... I have heard a little rumor about a yellow GTC that is looking for a home. It is currently in the window at FOH and cries every night because it just wants someone to love it...
I just cannot forgive the 365 the grave transgression of not having wing vents. Shallow, aren't I? BTW, do you think this car would really be the best, or maybe it would show up some warts as well on close inspection?..
Geeze Louise! Whut da problem here? Hell, just get a hack saw and a cuttin torch and have at it. While you're at it, you might want to add some of dem there spinner wheels. Oh, get out yo red dress Momma cause we's going downtown tonight!
I've spoken to Mike about this car and he assures me that it really is tits. As much as it's been calling to me, though, I just can't make myself lay down that kind of money.
I've seen the car Sheehan is selling and it's quite perfect (although I have not driven or done PPI kind of stuff with it). It is a lot of money (although 365 GTCs seem to have high asking prices). Understand about the vents, for big $ you ought to own what you like. Just a thought.
The rust spots and paint chips are a major issue. All the other stuff on your list I would consider "typical" for a car that has not been getting used very often. Pretty much any car you buy is going to have that sort of list of niggling little junk that needs to be fixed and will cost you $2K-$3K. No way around it so no point in sweating that just plan on it. The rust spots though.... thats another thing completely. If you see bubbling odds are the actual infected area is 10 times as large. A couple of small bubbles can mean a 10" x 12" section will need to be cut out and professionaly replaced. I just went through this on my Daytona. Someone had in the ancient past shoved a piece of foam between the tubes holding the cables for trunk release and gas cap release and the outer fender panel. Probably done to solve a rattle sound. The foam held moisture. Decades go past. A tiny (and I mean TINY, my wife couldnt see it at all and I mostly could just feel it when waxing) little bump appeared on the outside of the car. Rust. DRAT! Bo Pirkle's artistry and $3K later its fixed to perfection. The new section welded in was about 8"x10". That was ONE itty bitty tiny little rust bubble. You have 4 bubble areas and paint chips. Do the math. I agree with Dale. Sounds like just a nice looking driver condition car. $85K-$90K. I would ask the seller to either refund your deposit or cover the full cost to rectify all of the problems. Figure $3K for all the little stuff and $15K for paint repairs. Terry
It will be very interesting to see what St. Louis Motorcars or whatever they call themselves do with this. The ad is of the classic Harry Woodnorth/Charles Schmitt school of Ferrari advertising ("this motorcar exemplifies perfection" as long as you don't get within 10 feet of it). I am also always curious about why a dealer who only deals in the "finest collector cars" sells cars with speedometers or rev counters that don't work. Think about it: someone buys a $127,000 car and the speedo doesn't work? What can it cost to fix a Ferrari speedo? $1000? To make a $118k sale? It doesn't make sense and it calls the whole operation into question for me. Hope that you can get your deposit back or get them to do the body work required on the car (to your standards, not theirs). If so, the price can work. If they say "We'll knock off $5k for the paint", run.
Alan, not sure what you're talking about (Are you? ), but I'm pretty sure he's referring to the extractor vents in the sides of the front fenders on 330 GTCs that were replaced by rather dull-looking vents located on the hood of 365 GTCs. I agree that the former were much better looking. Even so, I can hear 12105 calling my name as I lie in bed at night. "Wayne, Wayne..."
Sheehan tells me the 365 is sold - not very happy with him, frankly, but it looked like a beautiful car.
I was refering to Door Window Wing vents.......sorry for the confusion. But I haven't sent $10K to a dealer that only has cloth banner signs on the walls! I did buy a car that was a "10 of 10" in used car lot terminology. After years of hard work and investment, it's a 7 of 10 now! LOL!
I don't think that you would go wrong on that particular car Wayne. I was very impressed with it when I saw it. I did not know that it was for sale when I saw it at the shows, I think that the car lives quite close to me.
Sheehan does a real good job of looking out for Sheehan. He rights a good vehicle description as well, but I think he's a little more accurate than the guys in St. Louis (with apologies to Chuck Ligon).
The engine did'nt look that clean considering it was rebuilt just a few years ago. Valve covers needed paint etc.. Makes me wonder...?? Again considering the value of this car, you should expect it to be in better shape.
