robbo can you explain how your freind lost 40k and 20 k in running did he buy a pup and if so is he sure theres money to be made out of a 430 once bitten twice shy did he think buying a ferrari would make him money ?
It never 'robs you of enjoyment', or me personally anyway....you've just go to know when to sell to limit the damage. I agree about the 355 market, more accessible and one removed from the 430.
He bought a massively spec'd, silver F1 for £119,000 new on a 'w' plate, and kept it for just over 2 and a half years. The dealer offered sale or return @ £85 k ( no interest- what a surprise ! ) and he sold to the dealer direct for £80 K dead. Servicing, 2 clutches, tyres and insurance over the period amounted to £20 K in total. I must admit, 2 clutches shocked me but apparently the F1 box can wear them quicker. The dealer did tell him that if it were 'Resale Red' the difference could have been between £5-£6000 to the better. There seems to be a rule there. Don't over-spec and buy red. Not sure if that makes it a pup or not. He never thought it would make him money, but also never thought it would cost that. He'll trade the 430 straight away as he is down for such an early car.
You are having a laugh right? On most of these cars, the dealers margin is about £10K, if they are lucky without too much prep work (I'm talking 360's here). If you manage to get £10K off, let me know, I'll buy all my cars through you in future.
I guess some of us are better at haggling than others. You must be the type to accept £500 discount as 'a good deal'. Cem
dispite the tone of where this thread is going, this is actually a very interesting subject. How much is a reasonable offer under dealer's list for... say... a 100K car?? 99K... 97K.. 95K.... I know it depends on LOTS of factors (for both dealer and buyer point of view) so don't quote these at me. But my question is, what is the lowest offer you could give ... without coming across as taking the pisssssss ????? ADE
Hey Noony, No I'm not thinking of a 360 Spider..... a LHD Murci (U know that!!)... anyways this point is for general interest, not linked to anything I'm doing. Just curious to how far people ACTUALLY push on a car deal..
Or.... maybe I've bought and sold enough Ferrari's to and from official dealers to know what the tolerances are. It looks like you haven't... the inexperience seems to show through. I was involved with a business partner who wanted to take the piss with everything, and often the line snapped and seller refused to even deal with us. Sometimes a good deal is a good deal, and if you dont take it someone else will. Like I said, if you manage to get £10K off a nearly new Ferrari at an official dealer, let me know and I'll buy all my cars via you. Take a commission, dont be shy. Ade, It really depends on dealer's circumstances. Most of them are financing their stock and some stock is SOR basis and those in my opinion are the most difficult to negotiate on. If the dealer hasnt sold a car within a time frame, then it will be incurring interest outside the stipulated and budgeted amount, so scope there for some discounts. Personally, I try to never name a price first. I'll try my absolute best to get the dealer to do so, but if pushed, I'll offer a low price with a smile and a joke, putting the focus back on the dealer to name a reasonable price. On my 355 Spider(I lost out on the first two I tried to buy because I wanted a bigger discount, both cars were sold before I could up my offer) I managed to get £3K off, but it was no bargain in the first place. My 360 Spider I managed to get 0 pence off. But it was a 3 month old car with less than 900 odd miles, in very rare nero non metallic, and had the spec I wanted (wing shields and red calipers! big must on black). At the time, late 2001 cars with 5k miles were trading at similar money. If you find an honest, clean late Murci at £95K LHD, and you are getting no discount, are you going to walk away? Hope not! Murci's seem to be harder to sell, so perhaps that gives further scope for a dealer to buy cheaper (needs to cover costs of the car for longer). The V12's in general seem to be like that, both Ferrari and Lambo. V8s are more affordable hence a bigger audience. I'm thinking of a Murci too, LHD, but dont worry we wont be going for the same cars! I will probably buy mine in Spain, to use and keep at my home in Marbella, as London is in a bit of state. The Feds are trying their best to bum everyone and the green eyed monster is rampant too. White van man, trucker ****er and the other idiots that inhabit the roads here have put me off. Its just no fun anymore.
Well thought out Ninja,its certainly been my experience too. I dont think theres much chance of a ferrari dealer taking 10k off any of their sticker prices. If you were to offer 9k for a 10k car you may stand a chance But not 90k for a 100k car at a ferrari dealer All just my opinion of course,based on my own dealings.
Interesting thread this. I bought my 328 in December last year, and was amazed by how much dealers were prepared to drop, because of the time of year. I went to see one car advertised at 39 and he offered it to me at 35 without me even asking. This wasn't a main dealer, but was a specialist. I think that is the key to buying cheap - do it in the winter!
I congratulate you on your experience in this area. I do not intend to be an aide in destroying this thread, so I'll keep my response civil. There are so many varying aspects to consider when going for the kill, it's totally naive to assume the dealer is king. In this instance, for an official Ferrari dealer to be stacked to the brim with 360's is positive financial suicide. With the 430 around the corner, the approach of winter and a general feeling of a saturated 'entry supercar' market (check out the Gallardo's), there are some crazy deals to be had - but you need to employ intelligence by watching stock, following market trends and enjoying the many publications that can make or break a car. But I'm sure you do all this. I know that Ferrari dealers make minimum £15k profit on all new sales. I also know that there is a £10k margin on all used examples. This is benchmark. Now I also know that dealers are often keen to release stock just to turn over sales, or to cut loose from a car they've had for a while. Any car that outstays its welcome in a showroom forecourt is both a depreciating asset and an increase in interest liability. Often a dealer may even sell at a loss in order to make up some temporary numbers. At the right time, the buyer is king. If you look in the relevant publications right now, you'll find 100+ 360's on sale. And the 430's been barely announced, this figure's going to go up. If I don't get my deal, then I walk away. Many a time I've done this only to have a dealer ring me back a few days later. As far as I'm concerned, I'm the one with the wallet. So, yes - there are major deals to be had at the right time, and I guess now's the right time. Lot's of love...
I can't imagine you're going to take all of a dealer's margin on a nearly new car. Particularly not one with a desirable spec'. So you're not really comparing apples. Cars that have been around on the forecourt for a while, maybe. But then these cars are usually hanging around for a while for a reason - bad spec', overpriced, unloved etc. You are right in terms of knowing what you're buying and being patient. Unfortunately for many of us, especially those buying their first Ferrari, patience doesn't come too far up the list 360 Spider prices are likely to be OK for a little while yet as the 430 doesn't have such a a variant any time soon. But there do seem to be a few 360s around at the moment, the 430 is close and winter's drawing close. Keep an eye on the "approved used locator" for a month or two and watch the stock that sticks. Then go and make a "sensible" offer (if the specs right for you). Main dealers usually have more fat than the specialists. PS Some might say paying 1k or 2k more for a car that you've always lusted after, but getting it 6mths early is a decent trade off (after all, why not wait a few years and you should be able to get one for 5k-10k less). You could be dead tomorrow...
Gary, Here are my thoughts, first a question. Are you going to buy a F430? Or would you consider buying a F430 when it arrives? If you think you would consider or even be forward enough to say yes you would buy a F430. Then, I would buy a F355 for the next several months to drive and trade/sell it for the F430. You will still be driving a Ferrari and would end up getting what will be a terrific car. This is based on your desire not to lose money. The 360 CS will come down in price how much is an unknown at this time. But you can be sure it will. I think you are not far off in that it could lose 30K. This will also depend on how many 360 CS's end up on the market at the same time. Best of Luck cheers
Seems strange for a bunch of Ferrari owners to be talking the market for their possessions down. If everyone talks this way I'm sure it will happen. On the positive side, if you want a new 430 and do not have £5k down now you will not see one without paying a premium until mid 2007. So what price a premium 430 given the stated 10% increase in list over the 360 and the fact that I heard the F1 box will be standard with manual a no cost option. £130 - £135k, or more? Against that a nearly new 360 at about circa £100k doesn't sound bad. Do we all really think that no 8 cylinder Fcar wll fit the space between these figures? There has to be a demand for the 360 otherwise many people will not be able to buy this type of car without paying what may be an insurmountable difference in price for a CS. I think 360 prices will hold for longer that people think. Ken
this is all bollox on here its all down to supply and demand there is more ferrari's for sale than there is buyers try and sell your ferrari in november even the dealers wont buy it
Steve you are quite right Ken i agree with you as well but how many are actuall owners ?? As i have posted before if you have to worry abut deprecation rather than enjoyment dont buy one get a Ford Focus RAY360M
