Ok, here is the torque numbers I have: Black's Pantera: 372 My Pantera: 322 LaCroix's 348: 187 Jano's 348: 195 Tillman's 328: 186
Does anyone know what the 'official' loss numbers are for the 308/328 transaxle? Seems like I remember seeing 17% somewhere. I'll double-check at home tonight, but my max torque was in the 140's if I remember correctly. Lucy, you got some tunin' to do!
I'm afraid there is only one way to properly to get power out of a 308 in a cost effective manner--put a 351 Cleveland in there! hehe Either $20K for Norwood's to turbo it, or $5K for an awesome Cleveland. Or, just leave it alone and enjoy it!
I'm just going to shoot for stock (US) first, then early US specs, then probably a few "Euro" mods. My carbs are all out of sync, my advance curves don't match between distributors, some plug wires are shot, etc. If I can get 180 RWHP that'll be good. Even out of tune it's enjoyable.
The 308 has multiple distributors? You'd be amazed what a set of new plug wires and plugs will do. Don't forget to properly gap them for your setup, it makes a major difference.
The US carb cars have two distributors, one per bank. Makes setting up the timing and dwell twice as fun. My dyno chart shows some mis-firing at high rpm, so I'm hoping new plugs/wires cleans that up.
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who made it out. I hope you all had as good a time as we did. I updated the ATS webpage with some information on the Ferrari/Pantera dyno day. Everyones best run has a .jpg available. Could someone make sure that the Pantera guys get this link? http://atsracing.net/ferraridynoday.htm Some cars have more pictures than others (like a certain red Pantera). I know Eric Adams took more photos of each car, but I haven't had a chance to get any of the pics from him yet. If you want a Dynojet run file of your runs just drop me an e-mail at [email protected] The Dynojet Runviewer can be downloaded at http://www.dynojet.com/downloads.shtml BTW spark plug gap IS important, when in doubt go smaller. For example stock on an MR2 is .031, on high boost applications we run .021. Thanks, Aaron
Thanks Aaron! Much appreciated, I'll forward it on to the Pantera club. It was a good time. If you get the air/fuel readout thing figured out, let me know, I'd like to come back up at some point and see what I'm currently doing in that area. Yeah, everyone likes a red sports car. Scott is always beating me at car shows with that thing.[/QUOTE] I think it just depends on what you are running. For example, I have an MSD ignition unit, which wants a wider gap. If not running high compression, the recommend starting point is between 50 and 60! I'm running 10.5:1, and went back and regapped mine from 45 to 51 and noticed a major increase in performance. I was really surprised.
I run an MSD in my green MR2. My plugs are gapped at .017 ;-) BTW avoid platinum type plugs and such. Believe it or not we have found great results running cheap copper Autolite plugs. I replaced a fairly new set of Nology Beru spark plugs (over $10 each) with a set of $1.89 Autolites in a customer's car recently and found 5 rwhp. I also spoke to Dynojet about how to get RPM and A/F on cars with so much RFI and they suggested using an optical rpm pickup. I'll have one here soon ;-) Thanks again, Aaron
Wow, thats incredibly small. How much compression do you have on that thing? The lowest MSD recommends to start out tuning is .35 (http://www.msdignition.com/7530html/info.htm). I've heard awful things about those Bosch Platinum plugs too. I just run Autolites on mine, with Taylor plug wires.
sorry to interrupt the spark gap discussion (I run the factory spec 0.025 with NGK copper, not including the gaps in a few of my worn-out plug wires) Here is a video of the first four runs, including the one Tillman didn't get where we discovered that his tach is "pessimistic" It's a little heavy with shots of my car, but hey, it's my video... Anyway, let me know if you have any trouble loading it. http://www.aledobb.com/jdc/dynoday.mov
oh yeah, for the record, my max torque was 157, not as bad as I thought. Not quite big-block Ford numbers.
The 351 Cleveland is actually considered a small block, though I believe it weighs as much as a 427. The Cleveland is sometimes called the "semi-hemi".
ah, I thought both the Panteras were running big-blocks. They looked much bigger than the 351 (Windsor) I had in my boat.
Wasn't the Cleveland engine discontinued in 72-73 (due to emmission controls)? I thought later Pantera's (73-74) had 351 Windsors? I could sure be wrong about this one... http://www.karmustang.com/identifying_351_windsor_and_351.htm Looks like you guys had a good time... congrats!
Not sure when Ford officially quit making the 351 Cleveland (not sure the exact reason they did this), but they were in all Panteras from 1971-1974. After Ford pulled out of the program, DeTomaso continued to put 351's in there, and at some point switched to the Windsor because no more Cleveland's were available. I'm not sure when that was, but I imagine they had Cleveland's on hand well after Ford stopped putting them in their production cars. I would guess that by at least 1980, it was all Windsor for the Pantera. Then that changed in 1990 when DeTomaso produced the Pantera Si, which still looked like a Pantera, but had much more modern updated design by Gandini, which used a 302 (one model had twin-turbos that was outrageously fast). Unfortunately, there are only 38 of those out there, and they are all European only
