diagnosis help

Battery voltage. If either goes through one of the small relays that is a known problem with them.

 

Which bank is faulty? The L/R Master Motronic relays behind the seats provide 12 volts to the igniters, injectors and a few other components at key turn on (on their respective banks). The left and right relays do need a command from their respective ECUs (I believe the ECU does this after the key is turned on an the ECUs run though a very brief self test).

We are discussing similar issues in the message thread "Problem Child" on the 360/430 forum.

If the problem is on both banks, you must have ignition key power supply issues.

 

I would confirm that you have a constant 12 volts to the injectors/igniter on both banks with the key on (ECUs fitted). I don't know if the lack of scope signals is due to no power in the wires from the car or no signal from the ECU. If you do have 12 volts, then it's the ECUs not doing their job or the ECUs are missing data they need from all the engine sensors (MAF's, crank sensors, throttle bodies, etc)

Also check you have power at the ECUs. There are a number of pins which need live battery and key power.

e.g. pin 15 (power from the inertia switch).
pin 16, 47 and 48 should have key power
pin 15 should have live battery power from fuse 68 (fuse numbers may vary from car to car)
Unfortunately, some of these ECU connector pins can't be tested for power unless you jumper the Master Motronic relays (pins 3 & 5).

Just to confirm... the engine is cranking during start? You didn't have to jump the starter motor?

 

I dealt with a couple of these 360 issues this year. It's hard to troubleshoot over the internet.

What changes did you make to delete the immobilizer? Software and hardware changes are needed.
When the ECUs are all hooked up and power is on, what messages did you see on the instrument panel? Red, Amber, or Green messages after the key is turned to On?
Are you able to hook up an OBD2 scanner and connect to both ECUs?

 

The F1 car will not enable ignition if the rear hatch is open or the door is open. That will lead to zero fuel pressure.
The ASR on after the key is turned on means your two ECUs are not talking to each other. That is a separate problem.

Close the door, and the rear hatch. Turn the key to on, what does the instrument panel say now?

 

With that ASR amber message, your car will not start.

Are you able to connect an OBD2 scanner to either ECU? You NEED to get one of these scanners.

 

That means your master ECU is not coming out of self-test at all.

You now need to look at the various power supply pins and grounds coming into the right side ECU. Start getting your DVM out.

 

No. In N, a F1 car can be started with rear hatch or/and door opened.

ASR on after the key is turned can also appear if the right ECU is not powered properly and thus is not broadcasting on the CAN bus. Dashboard detects this situation and set the ASR icon.

 

You should see 12V also on pin 32 when key is ON.
With key ON, can you hear the throttle bodies moving when you press the throttle pedal.

 

It's pin pin 15, 16, 32 and 48

Pin 32 needs 12V, not pin 47 which is ignition switch.

 

Yes, 12V on pin 47 at key ON makes the ECU to command the Motronic relay and then get 12V on pins 16, 32 and 48.
pin 15 is connected to permanent 12V.

 

I missed pin 32, but isn't the ignition 12 volts?

That's the F1 warning symbol, not the rear hatch.

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The F1 system enables cranking when its conditions for start have been satisfied, but as the symbol is still there, something is not right.

 

Yes, the ignition is 12V BUT it is a power supply pin that feeds anything. Pin 32 is a power supply pin that feeds circuits inside the ECU. If that is missing, you have problems.
That F1 gearbox symbol should not be ON when the car is running and engine is purring. But when the key is on and the engine has not started, its being on does not mean much.

He needs to figure out why the two ECUs did not come up and out of reset.

 

I still don't follow you. The ECU is not going to wake up if it doesn't have key power (e.g. if pin 47 is bent). But, anyway, because there is 12 volt power going to the igniters and injectors, it's fair to say that the ECUs have woken up and energised their respective Master Motronic Relays. Because of this, I assume part of their self testing has been completed (?).

Would the immobiliser circuitry do this?

 

Ian, here is my last battle with this no-start 360.

Immobilizer worked and enabled right side ECU.
Right side ECU went through self test and came out of reset. It sent a signal to the dedicated CAN line to wake up the left side ECU, and then it waits.
Left side ECU was lacking one of four +12V power signals, the one feeding the throttle housing, and it never came out of reset.
The left ECU never saw communication from left side ECU and did not enable ignition on its right side circuitry. Engine cranks and cranks and cranks and ..... never fired.

The amber ASR message is displayed on the instrument panel signifying that the ECUs cannot talk to each other.

Once I figured that out, I ran a separate 12V wire to the missing signal feeding the left side ECU, the car fired right up.

Matt is having something similar or along the same line of problems. Go find that missing signal ... These are now 24 years old wiring harness. **** happens.

 

He said the Immo is bypassed, and that is all we know.

 

On the F355, if the immobiliser is not disabled, you can't get the OBD port to talk to the ECU, but it doesn't stop the operation of the ECU-controlled injector/igniter relay. I can't help but think that something has gone wrong with the Immo modification.

Could this be another possible sign that the Immo has not unlocked both ECUs?

@mebozart Did you check power on those pins on both ECUs (including pin 32).

Would you have details on the wiring modification required?