Dicount on list price new Cali

So thank to these forums, a lot of online research and visiting a few dealers and resellers I’ve now narrowed down my selections for colors and options for a new 2011 Cali. Turns out my selection is fairly standard with not too many options, classic. Of course I’ll post the pics once I get it, or even the order details before that.

So now the question is what a reasonable price would be. If by now you think price should not be a discussion point, if you have to ask about price you should not buy a Ferrari, dealers only sell at list or above and so forth, than please start a new thread about this where you can air your frustrations. This thread is about the price of a Cali. Take it or leave.

The easiest starting point is MSRP for base and then options. Of course the dealer discount will depend on the dollar amount of options. So let me suggest depicting the price in 3 categories:
1. Base: base price of $192,000
2. Options: Total price of list options $22,415 in my case
3. Other: Dealer prep, transportation and gas guzzler tax: $350 + $2,400 +$1,700 = $5,450
The total is $219,865. The dealer is offering a discount of $5,350
This is a discount of 2.4% of the total price, or 24% of the options value
Questions:
• What do you think is a reasonable price or discount, based on your actual or your opinion?
• You can post in dollars or in percentage of total or percentage of options.
And of course some comments would be of interest.

Touchy subject, I know, but let’s get the discussion started.

There are 3 dealers in South Florida, so I'll have a final chat with all and order.

 

When I bought mine ... ordered in August 09, delivered in December 09, I simply paid list price. The economy had hit the tank by then which I am sure helped not having to pay above list, or wait forever for an allocation. If I were in a buying position today and were offered a discount of any kind I would be very happy and leap on it. However I also look for support after the delivery and fortunately have a dealer that provides great support.

When spending a quarter million dollars on a Ferrari I think the relationship with the dealer is more important than saving a few thousand dollars, far more important. MAG in Columbus Ohio has really helped make Ferrari ownership special.

Rick

 

Another option, if you're looking for fairly standard colors and options, is to consider the barely-used Californias available. Apparently (website) they have 3 or 4 sitting on the floor over at Naples Motorsports in FL, with 1000-5000 miles on them.

http://www.naplesmotorsports.com/inventory.html

But it may be a case where dealer asking prices for new ones are falling faster than asking prices on used ones. You might see if Naples is in the mood to negotiate -- they won't want to get stuck with 4 of these cars if dealers are discounting.

 

Of course price should be a discussion point.

And, if you insist in getting a new one under MSRP, the dealer will show you this, take it or leave it.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Yup!!! There not that bad off.

 

Sorry to hear you paid too much. (yes, sarcasm)
My dealer offered a price under MSRP without me asking, let alone insisting.
So when I ask, I'll save 6-10 k. Easy money.

Please open a new thread titles 'i paid too much, but proud of it"

 

Congrats on securing an off list offer. This is the first I have heard of any discounts on a new Cali.

 

The Florida market is pretty good for buyers these days. Take advantage of it and get the best deal you can. Personally I love a good deal!

I would imagine that Ferrari dealers operate the same way as most other car dealers.
They probably pay interest on new cars that sit. And they probably have a margin of 10%

Anyway, good luck and let us know your deal!

 

That is not a bad idea, with 4 on the lot price should be good, at least 5-10% lower than what they're asking. Unfortunately none are red, but they do look good.
Now that I've decided to buy new, i am emotionally not able to get a used one. I loved designing it over the last months, reviewing and looking and just need to place the order with the dealer when I get back to FL in 3 weeks. The market is very seasonal in FL, with the summer being slow for F dealers, all 3 of them. So I expect maybe 6-9 k off MSRP, which he might do partially in the form of free Lojack (yes, I want it), free film or some service. In any case, the dealer already offered a discount on my first visit, a month ago at WPB.

Will keep you all informed on price.

 

I think the responses of the previous posters suggests that the discount you have been offered is pretty good, as in recent history often times one had to purchase 1 or more used cars as a way to get an allocation for a desirable model at MSRP. Your being offered the discount on a new car suggests to me that there is either general weakness in the FL market or else the dealer has issues making it eager to move inventory. You have been offered a better deal than I got.

I wonder if this is one of the first indications that supply has finally outstripped demand, at least in FL, thereby putting pressure on resale prices.

 

There are many who post here that entered the Ferrari ownership game in the past ~10 years. During that time there was a nearly unprecedented economic bubble in virtually all asset classes driven by vast over-supply of money and all the other factors well known by now. To base any expectation of today's market, let alone the future market, on learnings of the past 10ish years would be a mistake IMO.

Also, Ferrari is now producing vastly more cars than 10 years ago and from the sounds of it have growth aspirations.

Let's see...frothy market gone. Check.

More supply from manufacturer. Check.

It seems an easy prediction to my eye to suggest that either now, or in the future, Ferrari will be dealing with discounts to list prices like any other producer. Not to the same extent, surely. But basic supply and demand and economic factors (interest on dealer inventory being a huge one) will drive both sellers and buyers to a market level rather than the "old days" of controlled production, over-demand by bubble-clubbers, etc.

All a long way of saying I am pretty certain that cars will be had for below sticker, and starting with the Cali is not a surprise. Obviously the limited production cars will continue to benefit from, well, limited production. But, even there, the price paid relative to sticker has fallen from the large mark-ups of the 16M days to folks paying sticker now/in the future for some of the lower production cars...

This should not surprise anyone and frankly I cannot imagine the arguments/facts that anyone would use to suggest otherwise...

 

I agree - the bubble years are gone.

A qualified/cash buyer is in a very strong position these days at any car dealership.

 

The economy is Florida is pretty bad from what one hears in the news. 40% or more of the housing market is underwater / behind in mortgage payments .

The expensive car market is also suffering.

 

The dealers have their quotas to sell. If they start discounting to maintain their quotas, Ferrari will just reduce their quotas and sell the cars elsewhere where they can make more money. Why? They need to keep resales high. Dealers make a lot more money on resales than they do new. If resale prices drop, so do their margins and it becomes harder to sell new cars.

We all know the game. They make a few cars less than the market will handle to keep prices high. The US market stinks but it's not true everywhere. Ferrari knows this way better than we do.

The dealer may, in desperation, make a few discounts. But, in the long run, it's a losing strategy. Next year, they just get fewer cars to sell in their market/territory.

As to Bullfighters comment that "the bubble's over" -- the only bubble that's over is that the US dominates Ferrari sales with 40% of it's total new car sales. That ship has sailed.

 

Why would Ferrari make less money if the dealers discount and make less profit (to the dealer)?

How would Ferrari know what the dealer sold the car for (especially if there is a trade-in involved that allows the two values to be inflated/defalted in tandem). ?

Your supposition of how their dealer allocations and profits work, may or may not be correct. And may or may not, even if correct, lead to the extermination of discounts. There are discounts today at some dealers for some cars (fact) and likely will be in the future (unless you can point to something that will change things back to full retail/list no questions, get out if that doesn't work for you approach that your earlier post implied I fail to see a reasonable, fact-based argument as to why they would stop). I think there is plenty of profit in making (Ferrari) and distributing/marketing/selling (Dealers) these cars for Ferrari and the dealers to make reasonable (or higher) profit levels while allowing customers to negotiate and buy these cars like all others...


I continue to see that many folks here know/assume/believe that Ferrari is somehow completely different and immune from everything that virtually, if not literally, every "volume" car maker experiences (volume in quotes to exclude build to order and other limited production shops but also to allow inclusion of Aston, Lambo, Bentley, RR, Porsche, etc). If Ferrari keeps growing volumes and introducing multiple lines (this reminds me of Porsche is a way and BMW before that with the expansion of geographies, model lines and price points), then they will increasingly face the same issues that the other producers do. No doubt you can buy a Lambo, Aston, Bentley, etc for a discount these days (heck, most days). My hat is off to the ferrari dealers and Ferrari for keeping supply and demand where they have and prices where they are historically...but discounts to list/retail are happening sporatically and IMO will continue to...goodness, just look how many people are expecting 458s right now in the threads over there in that forum...dozens...these are not all that limited production anymore!

 

I already explained that.

Lowering the purchasing price puts pressure on lowering used car sales even further.

This is counter to Ferrari's long term strategy.

When you can sell a guy a new car for $10 grand off, a used car you had in the lot just became less value too. Do it once... well, not such a big deal. Do it all the time and it's a huge deal.

The more used cars you have in inventory, the more you lose. And, the lower the used car trade in value making new cars more difficult to sell. Dealers make MORE MONEY off used car sales than new. Why? Because they sell more of them. For new cars, they have a certain quota from FNA. They cannot sell one more car no matter how much they beg (unless another dealer is selling under it's plan). With used cars, they can sell as many as they can move.

Ferrari is not like Ford, Toyota, and the other high volume manufacturers. You don't want any more cars in the US? No problem. I'll sell a few more in Russia or Kuwait or Germany or China. Ford cannot do that in a way that would make a dent in their sales drop.

In fact, it's worse than that. You don't want cars in Florida? No problem. I'm ship more to LA where we have a year backlog. Each one is custom built so it's just shifting numbers, not actual inventory.

So, to say they are not unique is simply not looking at their business model -- and even their own stated plans. Growth is not coming from the US. It's coming from newer and more robust markets.

In the US, new cars sold are about 12 MILLION per year. For Ferrari, they sell about 3500. When you sell that few, you can move a few hundred around the world without even breaking a sweat.

 

Thank you for demonstrating the classic internet mistake: Not reading the post before responding.

I said "insist". I didn't say you couldn't ask.

If you walk in and demand you need 10 grand off this car or you're not taking it, if you're a first time buyer you'll simply be told "no".

I also agree with Malibuguy who, like I, are multiple new car buyers. When you buy a car from a Ferrari dealer, a lot of us look at the long term relationship with our dealers. For us, that's worth more than a few thousand dollars on a car costing a quarter million dollars.


There is nothing wrong in asking. There's a big problem in thinking you're buying another Chevy truck.

Negotiation is possible. But you have to remember who you're talking to also. You don't do a deal with Donald Trump the same way you do with your gardener.

 

Although that's true in theory, in practice you will find that different regions have much different levels of mismatched supply and demand. Where I live, there's a 3 year waitlist on 458's and you have to be a VERY good customer to get on that waitlist. There's a 1 year waitlist for Ferrari Californias.

In a place not so far away (same state actually) there's no waitlist on 458's and the dealer is trying to get people to pickup Ferrari California orders that were dropped by their original purchasers while they were still in production at below MSRP.

I just need to move down there for a couple months until I can secure an order sometime.

 

Bob,

I get the presumed interest in sustaining used car values. For sure, very few car producers demonstrate that care. We shall see if Ferrari remains an exception.

Beyond that, I'll just say I disagree with much of what you wrote here. I simply don't have the time/energy to knock down all the falsehoods and strawmen you continue to propose in thread after thread. I will say, I'll bet my net worth that Ferrari cares greatly about the US market (this strawman is used in many luxury good market price discussions on the inteweb today...wine being another one that I am familiar with, watches being another...said another way, I'm sure they care about markets that are much smaller than the US, let alone being so secure they don't worry about the US).

Trump vs. the gardener...hilarious. Yes, its true...with Trump you hold on to you wallet much tigher!

 

What you say is exactly true. And, FNA will move around quotas in an attempt to sell as many cars in the US as possible at the highest possible price.

But, the California is selling great in other markets so they simply move them from one market to another if needed. There's even a conspiracy theory that Ferrari purposely delayed the 458 spider to help sell Californias to first time buyers.

I've heard wait lists for 458's in some territories are only a few months.

On the West Coast, it's still very difficult to get either. If you're a first time buyer and you walk in with an attitude, you'll get the door.

When the 458 spider hits, it's going to be trouble for everyone wanting one. Ferrari hasn't made spiders in 2 years. To get one and a lot will be paying over MSRP to get pushed up the list. The insanity will really start late this year.

 

Sorry you feel that way but having worked with them for over 25 years, its the truth.

 

It's a shame really. I can only surmise that FNA doesn't give CA more allocations because they want Ferraris to be seen more prolifically throughout the US. I know a lot of very loyal Ferrari customers in the west coast who, despite buying a new car every year rain or shine, still have to wait 1-2 years to get new models that come out.

Meanwhile, first time buyers in other areas of the US can walk in and spec out a 458 at their leisure, many of them ultimately flipping the car at a hefty profit to customers on the west coast.

At this point, I wonder whether it's more advantageous to develop a relationship with a dealer, and still have to wait 2 years to get my hands on a 458 Spider, or just forget about local dealers all together, and pick one up 10-20% over MSRP and skip the line entirely.

Hate to say it, but in the time it takes to develop a relationship with a Ferrari dealer, and then get a new Ferrari out of them, I'll have long since developed sufficient lower back problems such that I won't be able to sit in the thing.

 

In fact, maybe it's time I start developing a relationship with somebody who lives more than 100 miles away from any Ferrari dealership, then I'll have access to the whole country's allocations.

 

Two restrictions Ferrari places on their dealers that I never understood;

1) Only sell to customers in your region.

2) Do not advertise new vehicles for sale on-line or in print.


If you area Ferrari dealer in (insert city here) and you have two brand new California's sitting on your showroom floor unsold, whats the benefit to not list them on your website and sell them to whoever is willing to buy them?

 

Oh, I understand why exactly. It's to protect pricing and to prevent negotiation.

In most areas, you must buy a new car from a monopoly. You don't have a choice. It's take it or leave it. You live in LA, you must buy one from LA. And, FNA has already given LA it's quota so it knows in the early part of the year how many cars they will get for the entire year. I'm assuming there are some modifications from time to time but it's the initial plan that's most important.

As to new cars on the showroom floor, they don't need to advertise them. First, they are rare. Second, they don't last long. Anyone coming in and being told it will take at least 6 months to get a custom one or they can buy the one on the floor will take a serious look at it. Third, they have "prime" customers to sell them to who will flip them back for another new car in a few months. Once it's "used", they can advertise it and sell it to anyone. Yes, this is a kind of scam to get around the system, but with the quota system it doesn't really help them much.

Now it's easy to answer the question about why you can't compare Ferrari to Ford or Toyota when negotiating.

If you walk into a dealer in Chicago and want to buy a new car but you live in Dallas, he's going to say he can't sell it to you. Try that with Ford.

You must buy from your dealer in your area if you want to order a new car. If you don't like one Ford dealer's price, you can drive a few miles away and buy a better deal from that one. You can buy one from a dealer cross country if you want.

But you can't if you want to order a new Ferrari.

Now, when you have multiple dealers in a close area (Florida is one, LA another) it's possible to have overlaps. I'm sure though that quotas are similar between close dealers so the difference between them must be small.

For most territories though, you have no choice.

This again is why they make more money off used cars. They sell more of them because they can control the inventory, they sell as many as they can or want to, and can control the price they buy it vs the price they sell it. Most importantly, they can sell a used car to anyone -- which is why some dealers in the best locations sell a lot of used cars.

Dealers can't do that with new cars. The only opportunity for increased margin is in the selling of options -- which is why there are so many and why they are so expensive -- or selling over MSRP (if there is high demand). The one thing they want to protect is their new car "quota" so it's not cut the next year.

You see... it's a profit deal.