Did a 1982 308 GTSi come with Lambda control? | FerrariChat
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Did a 1982 308 GTSi come with Lambda control?

Discussion in '308/328' started by chipkent, Aug 12, 2009.

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  1. chipkent

    chipkent Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
    115
    #1 chipkent, Aug 12, 2009
    I recently bought a non-running euro-spec 1982 308 GTSi which I'm working on bringing back to life. I suspect it was one of the last cars made before QV because the wiring diagram is very close to the wiring diagram in the QV manual. While working on the fuel injection system, I noticed that it has a lambda valve that is not wired up. There aren't any apparent wires to the valve. I also don't see an O2 sensor, but there appears to be a plugged port on the exhaust tubing. Is there any chance my car came with lambda control? Was this part introduced from another car during an attempted repair by the PO?

    Shortly, I'll be replacing all the hard plastic fuel injection lines. Should I leave the lambda valve off the car? It seems like I should leave it out if it was not original to the car.
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,885
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #2 Steve Magnusson, Aug 12, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2009
    No, a 1982 (nor 1983) US 308 wouldn't have Lambda control -- Lambda control wasn't introduced on the US 308 until the 1984 model year.

    Are you saying that you have a 2-valve engine? Have you tried decoding your VIN to identify original market & engine type? Could you have a 1982 euro 308QV that someone traded engines? I'd guess that the added FV was part of a US conversion for importation -- maybe the rules were a little different then.
     
  3. chipkent

    chipkent Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
    115
    #3 chipkent, Aug 13, 2009
    I have decoded my VIN. It is a 1982 2-valve european market car.... but you bring up a good point that I didn't decode the engine. How do I tell the difference between the 2V and QV engines?

    If the lambda valve was added for importation, where would they have put the electronics to run it? I need some ideas so that I can go on a scavenger hunt. Is it likely that the lambda control was added but no catalytic converters were added?
     
  4. ace_pilot

    ace_pilot Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2007
    921
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    George
    #4 ace_pilot, Aug 13, 2009
    My euro 328 had a lambda control circuit that I had removed. But look for a frequency control valve to control the fuel system. Since yours is an '82, there may not be any requirements for emissions in your area. Mine did come with an O2 sensor that feeds into the lambda controller. There was also an evap container in there as well. Also look for a sticker that tells you if yours have been federalized. Usually in the door or on the rear bonnet.

    Ace
     
  5. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,469
    Birmingham, AL
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    Tommy
    #5 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Aug 13, 2009
    post a picture
     
  6. rolindsay

    rolindsay Formula 3

    Jul 14, 2006
    1,022
    Houston, TX
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    Rick Lindsay
    #6 rolindsay, Aug 13, 2009
    Same with my '83 Mondial QV. It is a gray-market car and has had the lambda circuit added. It failed shortly thereafter it seems. I have since removed it and converted the FI back to correct European configuration. (Details available, if desired. Just pop me a PM.)
     
  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,885
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    #7 Steve Magnusson, Aug 13, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2009
    The easiest way is to just look at the shape of the camcover, but the engine family marking on the top of the engine block at cylinder #1 will also be different.

    This is a 2-valve i engine, and the engine family marking for a euro will be F106B or F106B000:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login

    This is a 4-valve engine, and the engine family marking for a euro will be F105A or F105A000:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    There aren't that many places -- in the rear trunk under the floor covers on each side, or, maybe behind the passenger footrest.

    Technically, there is no reason that prevents you from having a Lambda system but no cats, but it would seem strange for a US conversion IMO. Since many years have probably passed, it may have had cats at one time, but doesn't now -- just speculation...
     
  8. rolindsay

    rolindsay Formula 3

    Jul 14, 2006
    1,022
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Rick Lindsay
    #8 rolindsay, Aug 13, 2009
    Hi Steve, et al., My lambda controller was in a plastic box screwed to the inside wall of the trunk, right hand side, forward bulkhead (Mondial QV). The wires ran through the bulkhead. The O2 sensor triggered a circuit that modulated voltage to a bypass valve in an added-on line to the control pressure/warmup regulator. Charge mixture was thereby modulated by tweaking the control pressure back to the fuel distributor.

     
  9. eracer

    eracer Karting

    May 29, 2009
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    Michigan
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    Eric W.
    #9 eracer, Aug 13, 2009
    I've got a completely stock and unmolested '82 GTSi Euro (also very late in the 2V builds--42995). Let me know if you'd like any info or photos for comparison purposes.
     
  10. chipkent

    chipkent Karting

    Jul 16, 2009
    115
    #10 chipkent, Aug 13, 2009
    I was out doing detective work on my car tonight. I do have a 2V engine, and I do have a federalization tag in the door jam just where ace_pilot said. I think this car was upgraded to US emissions specs to import it, and then various emissions components were removed or sabotaged over time. Thanks for the help in tracking down this weirdness.

    - lambda valve on fuel injection in place but disconnected
    - o2 sensor and lambda controller are missing
    - vapor canister sitting in the trunk
    - cats missing
    - air pump missing
    - what I think are the air injectors are connected with a hose between both sides of the engine

    I would be thrilled to get some pictures of an unmolested '82 GTSi 2V Euro! My car is 43021. Details on how all of the various hoses are routed would be fantastic (fuel injection, cooling, etc.).
     
  11. eracer

    eracer Karting

    May 29, 2009
    141
    Michigan
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    Eric W.
    #11 eracer, Aug 13, 2009
    Glad to help. Our cars were likely close neighbors on the 8 cylinder assembly line. I'll post a few photos tomorrow of hose routings, etc.. Don't be afraid to ask if you need any other info.
     
  12. eracer

    eracer Karting

    May 29, 2009
    141
    Michigan
    Full Name:
    Eric W.
    #12 eracer, Aug 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  13. ace_pilot

    ace_pilot Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2007
    921
    Long Island, NY
    Full Name:
    George
    #13 ace_pilot, Aug 14, 2009
    I think your car is stock (as in no federalized parts). I don't see an evap canister, frequency valve, and can't tell if there is an O2 sensor or not. Is there a cat. conv. down there? chipkent I would:

    1) not worry about it, if there is no emissions requirement
    2) get rid of the rest of the equipment and route the hoses, wires, as per stock (eraces's) picts.
    3) find the appropriate parts and get ready for money, headaches, and poor performance

    #2 is what I have on my euro 328.

    Ace
     

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