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Did my 328's recent 30k major service include a water pump rebuild?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Mike328, Jun 8, 2004.

  1. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Oct 19, 2002
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    Boulder, CO
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    Mike
    Hi guys!

    Just received word that the 30k major service on my new 328 has been completed... I had them fax me over the invoice (ALWAYS a good idea) before I picked up the car...

    Wanted to get your thoughts on some waterpump related items. I know that some 30k services include a water pump rebuild.

    Sodacom's sells a 308 water pump rebuild kit (not the same part numbers of course as my 328)... It's described as follows:

    308 Rebuild Kit
    You are looking at a water pump rebuild kit for the 81/82 308 GTBi/GTSi. This kit includes water pump bearings PN# 116159, snap ring PN# 11060076, scraper ring PN# 116158, water pump seal PN# 100433, lock tab PN# 100434, o-ring 105196 and water pump gasket PN# 135121.

    Oh, I just found the info for the 328 rebuild kit:
    328 Rebuild Kit
    You are looking at a water pump rebuild kit for all 328 models. This kit includes everything you will need for a rebuild. This kit has two water pump bearings PN# 116159, snap ring PN# 11060076, scraper ring PN# 116158, sealring PN# 152051, water pump gasket PN# 135121, o-ring PN# 105196 and lock tab PN# 100434.

    On my 30k invoice, the following parts (among other parts) appear. Note that these weren't part of the estimate, so it sounds like they decided that they were going to work on the water pump once they got into the car.

    Here is the parts breakdown:

    103952 Gasket, Water Pump, F 328
    105196 Seal Ring, F 328
    120948 Seal, Water Pump, F 328
    121553 Plate, F 328
    116159 Bearing, Water Pump, F 328 (NOTE: This is the same part listed in the Sodacom's 308 waterpump rebuild kit.)
    8410807 Lock Washer, F 328
    105189 Gasket, Thermostat, 308
    105192 Thermostat Oring, 308

    Total costs for these parts was $123.45.

    However, these don't seem to line up with Sodacom's 328 list. Part numbers get superceded all the time though and in general I find that everyone has a different idea of the various part numbers that are needed, and even parts databases that mechanics use aren't necessarily all sync'd up amond 308/gtsi/qv/328 models...

    Part numbers aside, does it look like I have a rebuilt water pump?

    Note: I'll be posting the entire 30k service for the community here shortly.

    --Mike
     
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  3. WaltP

    WaltP Formula 3

    Nov 1, 2003
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    Looks like it to me.
     
  4. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    I'm pretty sure no service schedule on any Ferrari includes a water pump rebuild, but if anyone has a book to show otherwise I'll gladly be proved wrong.

    A service is always purely preventative maintenance and inspections and replacement of consumable items.

    All repairs are over and above the term "service".

    Part of the service will be to check/replace the pump belt. With this removed, the mechanic can more accurately assess the condition of the pump bearings. If there is any sign of a leak from the tell tale hole, this could initiate a rebuild...but no repairs should ever be done without your prior consent.
     
  5. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Walt, Ferrarifixer,

    Thanks for the thoughts. Ferrarifixer, I agree fully. Fortunately, the labor for this work was included in the 30k. We agreed on a flat 40 hours of labor for the 30k (this seemed inline with three other estimates for 30k services that I investigated before moving forward). The idea was that if something needed to be done, we didn't have to get nickled and dimed about it, we could just do it.

    So, while I certainly can appreciate the concerns, the only cost I that I paid was the $123 in parts, which are in-line with rebuild kits that I've seen. I would have preferred to be kept in the loop about this, but I think we can agree that, in some cases when you've established a working relationship with a mechanic, with some of these things we just do. A counter viewpoint to that, though, is a really good mechanic will call, keep you in the loop, and get approval anyway just to keep everyone up to date.

    One example is, I complained a bit about the fast idle not seeming to engage, and then called back about this as I didn't see anything on the invoice... Response: can't move forward without my authorization to purchase a new aux air valve (or something along those lines)...

    --Mike
     
  6. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Well, after additional research, I can confirm that it does in fact look like a bona-fide rebuild.

    I found some additional information here:
    http://www.r-design.net/308/techtip6.htm

    I can correlate the following parts:

    ** 2 Large Bearings (as opposed to the small bearing type)
    ** Pump Gasket (apparently, listed as the non-updated version)
    ** Pump seal, consisting of a seal and what I have listed on my invoice as a "plate," but what is listed on the site above as a seal ring (Both for the Late version)

    I think the thermostat stuff (two parts, a gasket and an oring) isn't included in most rebuild kits, so is probably something else.

    Now, I have two additional parts I can't match from Carl's list:
    105196 Seal Ring, F 328
    8410807 Lock Washer, F 328

    Also, I don't have anything no match the "Shaft" part on Carl's list, nor the lock tabs, dome nuts, or circlips:
    Shaft, Late Version, 121253


    It's possible some of these match in reality, but just not in part number. What I'm worried about the most is the "shaft" part (not sure what part this is). Perhaps it didn't need replacement?

    Also note, of course, that the water pump belt was of course replaced (121655, I believe?).


    --Mike
     
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  8. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    Sep 18, 2002
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    One thing you might consider. One large reason the water pump fails is because the shaft starts to rust pit. This will then cause the seals to tear. I have installed rebuilt water pumps, only to have them fail 2 months later. I would ask your mechanic if the shaft looked good, and if it had minimal pitting, if it looked good, then you should be o.k.
     
  9. 1975gt4don

    1975gt4don Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
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    Never heard that one before, because IMO, the shaft is not involved at all with the sealing separating the coolant from the bearings via the spring type of seal. The seal should have some permatex applied lightly before installing the water impeller. The water pump seal is mounted inside of the water pump housing, so again, the shaft is not involved here. The impeller is mounted TO the shaft, but it is the backside part of the impeller that is sealed. My shaft is rusted and no problems for over 40K miles and I have rebuilt it twice. Shaft is over 15 years old.

     
  10. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 6, 2002
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    I have also had rebuilt pump go south, though they lasted longer than Tom's.

    I went a new one last time 'cuz that's all I could locate.

    It was the cutest little $500 I've ever spent, and still had to put a grinder to it to clear old style pulleys.

    I didn't tell the service station guys what it fit 'till they were finished grinding! lol
     
  11. matkat

    matkat Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2003
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    In think you got a good deal there,my 328 water pump let go and it cost all in about $800 to fix.
     
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  13. redhead

    redhead F1 Rookie
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    121253-Shaft= Waterpump shaft that the bearings ride on. It is a possible that the bearings had worn down the shaft over time or a slight water leak had pitted the shaft.

    105916-is the water pump/tstat houing to block o-ring
    8410807--I have no idea. That does not come up at all.
     
  14. murph182

    murph182 Rookie

    May 19, 2004
    7
    maybe it's just me, but the way I would figure out if they did a pump rebuild would be to call the shop.

    "Did you rebuild my water pump?"

    "yes/no"

    "thank you."
     

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