Differences in parts between QV FI and QV DD engines?

Thanks Raymond,

My point is that if the part numbers are different we shouldn't be surprised if the parts are different!

 

Exactly.

 

Were such changes reflected in different part numbers?

Attached a pic of crank from 1985 carb Countach delivered directly to the owner at Lamborghini factory and owner told me he shook hands with Sig Lamborghini himself.
So unless Lamborghini build a special engine for the car sackey is talking about, which you never know.

Anyway. Euro part numbers for crank up to 12539 is 1420911, which changes to 1420925, which is the same number for the US QV version
Crank for 12540 and up, # 1428723 same as the US version.

US part number for crank up to 12532 is 1420925
Crank for 12533 and later is 1428723 same number as the Euro crank

Chadbourn Bolles
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The owner shook hands over his new Countach Downdraft at Sant Agata with Cavaliere del Lavoro Ferruccio Lamborghnini himself

Are you sure about that?

Try as I might to belive that story, I can't because by 1985, Il Commendatore had been long gone by about a decade and had absolutely nothing to do with Nuova Automobili Lamborghini SpA and/or its cars by then.

How do I know this to be so?

I personally asked the owner of Nuova Automobili Lamborghini SpA (1980 - 1987) Patrick Mimran himself in a recorded interview last year, and he told me so.

Your crank part numbers info on the other hand is interesting and appreciated.

 

Continuing along with the differences, here below are some illustrative differences between the Downdraft and the Fuelie engines.
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Thanks for posting these, wow , no slam dunk, industrial/functional versus old car,

 

True, as Ive said before, by the advent of the Fuelie, Carbs were considered by some to be obsolete.

But therein lies the beauty of the comparison, and the question will always be begged for eternity - why did the factory use the Downdraft engine and not the Fuelie engine for FIA Homologation?

There is but one answer to this, answered by the factory engineer himself - because the former represented the absolute pinnacle of performance of all iterations of the Countach engine. Although the FIA Homologation itself did not pass to be used fir any purpose (as with Ferrari's 288 GTO), its gave the car the factory's own seal of approval that eventually elevated it to Holy Grail status amongst the faithful. I belive the Downdraft will have a similar path as the 288 GTO from the same era.

Sometimes the old car is more powerful, faster, more desired & more valuable, all of which are indisputable here. This doesn't take away from the newer car though, it simply proves as has been proven many times in many different situations that newer is not necessarily better.

 

this thread...oh boy....

a race engine in 1988 with carbs...just funny.. back in the 60's they allready used fuel injection.. not because it was soo bad.. on a Porsche 917 they used fuel injection, all the best race engines, BRM, Ferrari, Porsche, Ford: all fuel injection.. The QV engine with carbs also actually is the very last super sportscar what used carbs! How many are raced? 2? 3? cars, how many races did they win? Just interesting to know.. by the way, the countach QVX (off course a great project/ fantastic car..) had FI.. Then the Rain X countach, yes that car had the carbs, car was build from a 25th anniversary countach, does anybody know how succesfull that car was?

 

Part of the fun bench racing. There is another possibility not discussed. Lamborghini was cash strapped. The carbs did produce more hp than the fuel injected system & Lamborghini simply did not have the money to invest. Lamborghini was broke. The fuel injection system came about for the US market. Lamborghini's profit on a dd car was surely more.

 

Joe ,all very true, the homologation is very sexy,and cool,but was never done with the intention of racing, the Countach did not fit competetively in to any class at the time, take a look at any sucsessfull race car from that period,also the Countach was already in the pipeline for replacement(Diablo) any car can be homologated,meaning all tech and spec,dim ,specifics are submitted,and that would be the basis for the cars aplication if entered in a race. I will agree ,the homologation is a cool old feature, owned by the DD, but please, there was no competitionin mind ,at all beeing ,it is as far cry from a race car. sexy cool and amazing ,grounbraking design,Yes, race car absolutely not, why they even bothered homologatin it,remains a mystery,must have had something to do with thr GTO Ferrari ,or who knows,

 

Interesting story on the internet reg this car,David Jolliffe wich tried to enter a 5000s,in racing 1985, but was denied this on basis of not enough cars produced in order to be leagally entered in a suitable class, The story goes,he worked with Marmiroli, wich engeneered a 5,7 liter engine, fuel injected, wich Jolliffe installed in a Spice chassis. Moral to this story is,no denial,carbes are sexy,also the swansong in the dd,wich is undeniably a cool historic poin in the Countach history, but please, lets stop the performance adv praise, the qv fi engine makes nearly the same power(35) less,with an exhaust system from a lawn mover, And catalytic converters, no opinion on future value,as Joe says, time will tell, only from a tech, performance angle

 

So true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B#Group_B

For example:

FSO Polonez 2000 Rallye (B-261, homologation date 1st April 1984)

Lada VFTS (B-222, homologation date 1st Oct 1982)

Skoda 130 LR (B-269, homologation date 1st Jan 1985)

All these were Group B homologated cars, amongst others.

I assume that the FIA homologation also gave these cars "the factory's own seal of approval that eventually elevated it to Holy Grail status amongst the faithful".

It is really really strange that Lamborghini kept its little secret after all these efforts only done with the intention to elevate the "DD" to "holy grail status".

Oh boy, this FIA issue and the story made from it...

Better back to topic now.

 

Its super-entertaining, and occasionally some facts are shared!

 

And thank goodness we discovered this little secret! that's all that matters.

The fact remains it was done, and the fact remains that for any manufacturer who seeks FIA application, it is only because they are certain this is the most potent version of the car they are building at the time. That's a fact. The desirability of an FIA Homologation is undeniable amongst enthusiasts, just ask the owner of any 288 GTO, it adds appeal, as I can tell you myself - another fact.

BTW that Skoda 130 LR is the Holy Grail of Skodas, just ask anyone in the Skoda Owners Club

Another just-for-fun fact: I am not the only Countach-owning Fish-Seller, the most prominent of all and my mentor is Frankie J. Bradley, yes him who owned the last-ever built S1 (below) and him who still owns a V12 mid-engined Lamborghini 30 years later - all facts.

Yes, we better get back on topic.
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On the fish topic wich i find very entertaining. I once trst drove a Anniversary wich was previously owned by a fish seller/ fishing boat fleet owner in Nova Scotia.

 

Great perspective, and it is real-world stories like these that end up creating iconic cars.

As they say, necessity is the mother of invention, and the saga of the Downdraft is indeed one that underscores the companies' survival.

That said, I can assure you that during the Mimram era, Nuova Automobili Lamborghini SpA had access to plenty of money, and the fact that the FIA Homologated Countach and the Countach Evoluzione (Super Countach) were both Downdrafts speaks for itself!

 

You are 100% correct that ultimately the FIA Homologation served no purpose whatsoever.

But the fact is that they did it, and this speaks to the factory's own view of the car.

Just as with the same-era 288 GTO (which was also FIA Homologated ultimately for nothing) that status translates to desirability amongst the faithful, that much is undeniable, just ask me. Owners are proud of this documentation and I know some who drive around with a copy in the glove-box! Just because its a cool fact about the car, whatever that means to different people, something to some, and nothing to others, either way, its still a fact that the Downdraft is the ONLY Countach the factory bothered to FIA Homologate.

Again I see no reason why the even more iconic Downdraft will not follow the path of the 200 GTO. 2 parallel cars, similar era cars, similar production numbers, similar performance (Downdraft actually a little quicker to 60), but the Downdraft much more exotic. Early days.
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To my parent's disappointment perhaps I skipped all my English Literature classes but I vaguely remember a Shakespeare line "Methinks thou dost protest too much!" which certainly applies with you

As they say, it is what it is, the factory made these cars 30 years ago with their own agenda in mind, and none of us had any influence in their manufacture, so there's no need to deny the obvious or continually ask for it not to be championed.

All is good.

 

hopefully its quicker. I dove a very well sorted GTO not to long ago, back ti back with my car. I will bet money my car was quicker and more responsive.

 

maybe it was a 308 with big side mirrors ........

 

Luckily All the injected owners i know seem perfectly happy with what their car IS and what it IS NOT.. and really are just happy to own one- so this topic seems really ridiculous imo.

 

Agreed, but I do enjoy finding bits of new information on the cars.

 

Correct. With a few extra inches in the wheelbase,engine turned 90 degree ,2 turbos. Fender extensions and There you have it. 288 GTO. 2 mil . Go figure.

 

For the 288 GTO yes, it's a fact. Same for 959. 30 years ago, every schoolboy knew that these cars were designed for Group B. Designed for, and not only homologated.

But anyway, both the 288 GTO and the QV are great cars and the FIA homologation issue seems to be very important for you.

Probably you are right here.

Now this really is a great car! The only S1 in luci del bosco/bianco.