Dino 01628? Is this what it appears to be? | FerrariChat

Dino 01628? Is this what it appears to be?

Discussion in '206/246' started by JF308, Jul 26, 2014.

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  1. JF308

    JF308 Formula 3

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    #1 JF308, Jul 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    If this is what I believe it to be, how the F (and not Ferrari) does Helms find this stuff.

    I was over at Scuderia Rampante poking around, and he had this dusty old Dino 246 up on the lift (see photos). One owner, S/N 01628 per the Dino register has a few very interesting comments.

    > Chinetti order
    > Factory prepared for racing
    > Original campi's
    > fender flares

    How many factory prepped racing 246's did Ferrari commission?

    Dave was tied up and/or not disclosing....but if this is one of only a few factory prepared racing Dino's it will be well worth restoring. Quite a find.

    (last two photos from SR Facebook page).
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  2. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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  3. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    I took a look in the dinoregister, the note on the invoice about this Dino being for racing use only was written to allow import of pre-USA model cars to the USA.
    There probably isn’t anything special about the car, it’s on the Chinetti invoice for my Dino (1970) and a number of others around that time. Search for “racing use” in the Dino register.

    Looks like a good restoration candidate, great to see progress!
     
  4. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    I agree with Andrew. The car looks very solid and an excellent starting point for the restoration. As stated declaring a car as 'racing use' was done a lot to import cars before federalization. I strongly doubt there is any special racing preparation on this car but it should not detract as it is a wonderful early M series coupe.
     
  5. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    I’ve also seen original Chinetti import paperwork listing “racing use” for a normal Dino and then sold as a normal Dino. The flares look too much like the later Dino flares along with the Campy wheels and not like in the homologation papers. This leads me to think they were put on post factory. The factory build sheets I would imagine would list any racing mods. Needs more digging and research to legitimize.


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  6. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    We will see.... I am still researching the significance of 01628 and its sister car 01626, both sporting the same 'pre option' style flares, with 01626 going to General Motors and 01628 going to Donald, whom I got it from.

    Luigi and Donald were person friends and Luigi moved in and lived with Donald for a time in Grand Junction Colorado when he left Italy and moved to the US.

    Donald specifically ordered a "Competition Model" that was to be personally picked up at the Factory. Luigi then made travel arrangements and Hotel reservations for Donald's trip to the port where the car was shipped over on the USS France, the Factory providing both Italian and French license plates for that trip. both of which I still have.

    I have a fair bit of correspondence between Luigi and Donald when spec'ing and ordering the car and making his travel arrangements, transit paperwork for the USS France (AG Division?), importation paperwork from the Italian Consulate in Chicago, I will share when I have a moment to post it.

    How the significance of these two modified sister cars plays out, who knows, we can only speculate at this point. The storyline that was passed down by family members was that these two were originally being planned as a Sebring race effort but delays in production made that impossible so Luigi instead paid off some favors and provided them to friends whom he owed a debt.

    Obviously there was some special plan in place to have back to back cars on the assembly line both with the same modifications. In time maybe that plan will show itself, maybe not. Donald obviously had big plans as he specifically ordered a Competition Model with special tuning, roll bar and such. Regardless of the outcome, its fun to collect all the stories, of which there are many... Donald drove the wheels off this car and his children have shared some incredible tales of such!
     
  7. 4CamGT

    4CamGT F1 Rookie

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    Any photos of the Bill Mitchell GM Dino?
     
  8. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Dave,
    This sounds familiar, I have all the correspondence between the first owner and Chinetti for my Dino #00962 which was delivered new to the USA. The first owner was a racer, visited the factory and specifically wanted a competition model with a roll bar however what arrived was an italian spec production Dino with English instruments and no roll bar. As mentioned before, a handful of pre-USA model Dinos were delivered like this marked on Chinettis invoice for competition use only, not for road use.
    I showed my invoice to Dick Fritz and Matthias two years ago at Cavallino, it was just how they sold Dinos back then.

    Does the #01628 have English instruments?
    Best, Andrew
     
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  9. GIOTTO

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  10. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    I completely agree with your importation assessment, Andrew. I have been very fortunate to have been hands dirty with a good many NART cars over the last 4 decades and know well how Luigi operated back in the day, that was SOP at the time and I have noted it on a number of other cars.

    My on going research interest is centered around the basis of these two sister cars with Flares, wide wheels and what the intention was for them at the time. These questions I have are just of personal interest as I really don't care what the answers are, the car is what it is, no more or no less. I find it somewhat interesting how the shape of the Flares started and what they evolved into when it later became an option. I see this same shape flare also showing on the 1972 NART Dino and am looking for other examples that had them.

    Donald used this Dino year around in the Colorado mountains, the resulting rust in the area of the flares showing that clearly. I am proceeding very slowly through the layers of body filler, noting exact profiles at each stage. The car was originally red and when Donald changed the color to the orange hue, he also modified the shape of the flares ever so slightly, that happening once again as he was preparing for another repaint that never happened. Each layer of body filler was a different color so the contour changes are easily noted. My goal is to identify the exact original shape, size and contour and put it all back to what it was when new.

    As you noted on your car, 01628 never had a roll bar installed even though there was requests for special tuning, wide wheels and tires and a roll bar in correspondence between Donald Roark and Ivo Brillo, the manager of Chinetti Motors at the time, on March 3 and March 21 1971. It would be interesting to compare your correspondence and what I have to see if this was a standard request form that Luigi created and had all the customers mail to him in a CYA move at the time.

    01628 has Euro instrumentation in it, currently showing 43798 KM. On disassembly I also noted changes to the steering rack and shaft that I have not seen before on other Dino's I have owned or worked on. Doubtful these were factory modifications based on the level of workmanship, I suspect they were done by Donald early on in his ownership. Donald used the car in Rally's in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado, I have a picture of the car with a 2nd place trophy of the 1972 Glenwood Springs Rally. Just another data point I am looking into as I compare this car to two other 1972 Dino's in the shop currently.
     
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  11. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Dave,
    Yes, let’s compare correspondence, it was around 1969-70 with Ivo Brillo for my Dino.
    I’ll pull out a few relevant docs and post them up.

    Regarding the European instruments, I see in the Dino compendium it’s listed as an Italian model so that makes sense and you said it was delivered at the factory.

    Best, Andrew
     
  12. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Dave,
    The wheels in the delivery sheet are 14/6.5 which are standard Cromadora, the Campys are 7.5 wide.
    They charged $1000 for “special preparation for racing”, hope he actually got something for that!
     
  13. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
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    I love all of the original documentation. You don't usually see that. It really accentuates the provenance of the car and is just very interesting to see how the car was ordered and what Ferrari actually shipped. I am sure that Ferrari has tons of this stuff in their archives and whoever has the old Chinetti files has all sorts of interesting information. It's too bad that it isn't easily accessible.
     
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  14. DinoLasse

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    Interesting car and documents.
    To me, it seems quite obvious that the "racing" part was simply a way of getting the car imported. One normally does not order a stereo 8-track player/radio and an electric antenna in a car intended for racing.
     
  15. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    It will be interesting to see how closely matched the two requests are written. It would be rather fun if we can uncover a system where Luigi required a pre written 'canned request' to be sent to him for a car to be imported this way.

    To your point Motob, what is requested and what are delivered... at least Donald got SOME of his third choice... what other company could get away with this type of thing?!



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  16. davehelms

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    If one was taking everything at face value, it would appear Donald was just looking to purchase a standard 246 some 48 years ago today.

    Near a month later the conversation appears to take a turn towards "we cant give you one of those but we have this 'special' that you can take that would work on the street as well...."

    The invoice surely shows he paid for something special, the build sheet shows it was something special, and the Consolato Generale deItalia refered to it as "ex-works, in the special EE series". Surely these two sister cars were unique with the flares and wheels... were they intended as something else?

    From "not desiring any special equipment" other than a radio, to a "Competition model"... hell, I don't know, I am just trying to connect the dots on a big piece of blank paper covered with flyshlt.
     
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  17. davehelms

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    #18 davehelms, Mar 3, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
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    I am not seeing anything obvious, I am seeing everything begging more questions than giving answers.

    It would be interesting to see all the paperwork that was generated on 01626 to see if that shows a parallel to 01628.

    I am not trying to make this out to be something it isn't... just trying to understand what it really is or might have intended to be.
     
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  18. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Dave,
    These are nice documents you posted, it seems Mr. Roark was told wide wheels are available at least.

    I've posted the most relevant letter from the correspondence I have between Chinetti/Ivo Brillo/Richard Fritz and the first owner of #00962 from November 1968 through June 1970. Also shown is the bill of sale, I removed the name and address for privacy.
    There were 8 letters with Chinetti and a factory visit to Italy. The original quote and deposit was for a 206GT in 1969 however he decided to wait for the 2.4L "L-series" to be available, which is what he purchased.
    Please read the details to compare, the request was for a roll bar with harnesses for the "racing Dino 206GT". Ferrari even quoted a $140 price on the roll bar which never arrived with the car, nor did the harnesses.
    In another letter, Ivo Brillo explains there are NOT 3 stages of tuning available. Clearly there was some of confusion on the available options but nevertheless, folks were pretty excited to get a racing Dino.

    Regards, Andrew


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  19. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    Interesting, dgt. How does the build sheet on 00962 read? I am trying to identify the build sheet on 01626 and sheets on the production cars on either side of these two cars, just for comparisons sake.

    By this point in time Dick was hands full dealing with the Daytona EPA / DOT issues, slipping a few Dino's in under Race Car exemption was the easy short term solution.

    Obviously early on they were bringing them in through the normal shipping channels at the dock, the change to delivery through the Italian Consulate was an interesting twist. I wonder if that was financially motivated or if the heat was on at the shipping docks? Surely Donald paid more to have his car and himself transported on the SS France than any deal Ferrari would have worked out to mass ship cars at the time. I suspect time delays would have been the motivator in that decision as it didn't look like he was on a budget trip to Italy!

    In all the special vintage Ferrari race cars I have been involved with, the term 'ex-works' was only used in very specific examples, a point that at least intrigues me. Minutia in the big picture, just looking to accurately finish the storyline, based on facts, not supposition

    The pricelist sent to Donald, obviously nothing more than a rough guideline at the time! Just fun to compare to todays window stickers...





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  20. davehelms

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    Donald's travel literary after his visit to pick up the Dino, and of course a good cleaning
     

    Attached Files:

  21. dgt

    dgt Formula 3
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    Sorry, I don’t have the build sheet. Wish I did!

    The base price for #01628 at $7300 is a deal, the extra $1000 brings it up closer to the price of mine and the pricelist.
     
  22. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    Another interesting potential explanation, "release the herds of squirrels", good catch!
     
  23. davehelms

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    I spent the last day researching the Homologation Files registered with the FIA re: 206 / 246... what disarray things were in back then!

    Fiat did quite a tidy job on the Fiat Dino's of the period but it appears the 206/246 was lagging behind on paperwork. FIA fie #247 shows a beginning and end date of 1-1-69 with a single chassis number, where as FIA file #627 at least shows a run of cars starting with 00416 and ending with 00920, that registration running from 1-1-71 to 2-1-73? The last FIA file I was able to find was 3049, that picking up with 02892 to 03920.... oh how I wish I had Matthias's Compendium at home when doing this task, worse yet bubble headed with the flu.

    No help with this search, 01628 doesn't fit into any series with FIA files I was able to locate at this point but I have yet to translate everything so I can read it in its entirety. Surely this has already been discussed and researched to the end of the net, I will have to look for that when my head clears.

    Obviously Luigi, Dick and Ivo had few concerns about fine points in paperwork covering "Race Exemptions" being imported given they were using FIA files covering 206's for importing 246's..... no surprise here.
     
  24. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

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    The quest to identify shared commonalities and unique differences with 01626, that because these two cars had Flares in a production stretch of standard 246 cars, the focus turned to wheels this week.

    All of the photos I have been able to find of sister car 01626, show it with Cromodora wheels and the flares, where as everything I have shows 01628 to have been delivered with (5) Campagnolo wheels, 3 of which measure at 6.5" x 14 and 2 being 7.5 x 14".

    Trying to put dates to the photos, posted pictures of 01626 shows it to have the General Motors manufacturers plate on it from 71, so I am assuming that would likely have been correct as it was delivered, less the changes Mitchell made to the car (mirrors, front spoiler and such). The best I have been able to do on 01628 so far is photos from the Spring and Summer of 72, those all showing Campagnolo wheels on this car. Close scaling of those photos also appears to show them to be staggered width front to rear, which agrees with the wheels that came with the car.

    The 6.5" wheel that still wears an old XWX would have obviously have been the spare as that is all that would fit in the spare well. Upgraded to Goodyear Eagle VR60, 235-60-14 tires at some point, that sizing and cross section width did the car no favors as the tread width was too much to clear the Flares and the fiberglass inner wheel wells, causing some damage to both. At some point later on the wheels were changed to MIM Speedline's, that being a complete No Go from any view point, it pains me to even post the photo! What damage wasn't done by the earlier upgrade to VR60's on the Campagnolo's, was taken care of with the MIM's!

    Far too dirty to see any date codes that might exist, these tires will be dismounted and I will vapor blast the wheels this coming week to see if any casting codes do exist. There are very faint indications that size stampings do exist on the outer rim of each wheel under what appears like several layers of paint. The upside to the vapor blasting is paint layers can be removed quite slowly and gently, that unveiling the history layer by layer.

    No answers this week, only more questions
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