New Dino owner just getting my feet wet. I happen to know that the 246 in Germoglio is still in that color and now owned by Aldo, proprietor of Aldo's in Campbell California. I have since bought a car from UK, originally from California (LHD). Chassis # 4486. My big project is to confirm if the engine (#10577) and gearbox (#1661E) are indeed matching. Car was Red/Black but now is painted in Giallo Modena. Can anybody help? I have read here that Marcel Massini can help. I would be so grateful for any pointers or information. Car will be months to make it here in Saratoga California from the UK. Can't wait!
The vendor of #04486 is an Official Ferrari Dealer in the UK so surely they could confirm whether or not it's matching numbers. You probably know that the US side indicators and rear reflectors have been removed and the upright nose indicators have also been changed to as a Euro Dino. Bumpers still as US and aftermarket Prototipo steering wheel. No pics of the engine bay to see if it still has its smog equipment.
In addition to what is stated in my earlier post, #04486 is an E Series (US) Dino 246 GT and should have black frames surrounding the triangular side windows, as do the earlier M series 246 GT Coupes. However, it has the chrome frames like the first model Dino 246 GT, the L series, and 246 GTS, which also have the chrome triangular side window frame surrounds. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wow...! You guys rock! So much detail and value here! I am still trying to get two Ferrari dealers here in the Bay Area to find out but from Marcel's post, these are matching. Mille Grazie. I am also learning about the changes this car underwent during its stay in the Tokyo/Yokohama area between 2009 and 2013. Saw pics of a bare metal restoration and apparently some changes as miurasv's keen eye caught. They were part of a video sent to me by the Ferrari dealer in the UK. The link to the video follows. Any further comments welcome from anybody that I am sure can catch much more that I can from this video. https://video.citnow.com/vtw0TptLyGN Sam Rose of the selling dealership did the video and from the strength of the video, pictures, and conversations I decided to enter into contract to buy this car, contingent on the engine & gearbox matching. Since they do, I will be happily moving ahead with this purchase. Although I do plan on getting the car more thoroughly looked at when it comes and find out the exact list of what is different from its original, I am fine with the changes pointed out by miurasv. No idea right now if the smog equipment is still attached. I am attaching a pic of the engine bay if that helps. The Japanese translation of one part of the work order says ""Removal of articles in excess of current US specifications". Delightfully vague Japanese translation... The front reflector did throw me since I had heard US cars had extruding orange reflectors. The picture shows the front turn signals similar to other Europa versions. Thank you again for your kind assistance. I look forward to more interaction and getting this beauty as soon as a ship can bring her here! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thanks again. The selling dealer said this: "On delivery it was in Rosso Chairo with a tan interior". I was confused about the interior (I looked at some many cars over the last week), so i take it that
Sorry, pressed too early. I meant I take it that you meant the interior was not black but tan but the exterior was Rosso Chairo?
A few observations from what little I could see in the low resolution video: Not sure what's going on with the colouring of the triangular side window surrounds. The salesman states he is not confirming matching numbers so personally I would ask for photographs of the actual engine number and transaxle number from the car to see if they tally with the factory stated numbers. No smog equipment. The Ferrari Birmingham paperwork/invoice for carrying out a vehicle inspection to obtain a Certificate of Conformity dated 2nd March, 2015 states the engine number as 524123 as does the invoice dated 20th March, 2015 for supplying the vehicle technical statement from Ferrari Italy. Bob Houghton, who has an excellent reputation, has serviced the car since being in UK. Would not go into reverse and had oil leaks in 2021.
Also didn't see any of the chassis number or engine tipo number ID plates apart from the main chassis number stamped onto the frame at the back left of the engine bay (which looks a little faint). Don't know if the original interior and seats were leather but it's been retrimmed in vinyl. @fhenley May I ask if you've physically seen the car and/or had it inspected by a Ferrari expert?
A few quick observations that you might want to fix when you get the car - The foam strip laying on top of the radiator should be glued to the underside of the front hood so that it lifts up and away from the top of the radiator when you open the hood. The alternator fuesbox is missing on the firewall. Dinoparts offer what looks like a great reproduction item https://www.dinoparts.com/en/parts-accessories/ferrari/dino-246-gtgts/electrics/alternators/10350/orignal-alike-fuse-box-alternator-60-amps The door window winder mechanism covers are missing. Dino parts offer repro items of these but trim them in leather. If you are retaining the Nero vinyl interior Stefan at Dinoparts may be able to get a set made with matching vinyl for you. https://www.dinoparts.com/en/parts-accessories/ferrari/dino-246-gtgts/body-fittings/doors-seals-more/11525/cover-electric-windows-black It looks from the video that there is only an Owners Manual book for the car which has been taped up the spine. There is no leather book pack wallet, Parts Book, Warranty Card, Battery Guarantee Certificate, Veglia clock tag etc. The original US market smog equipment has been removed. The front side repeaters are not correct for a Euro spec 246 GT and should be Alitissimo units like these https://www.dinoparts.com/en/parts-accessories/ferrari/dino-246-gtgts/lights-wipers/indicator-lights/10726/side-indicator-light-small It loks like the later style from the 308 have been fitted. It's a small point and moot if you ever intend to return it to full, original US spec.
i have an original clock hang tag. it differs frim the daytona clock tag so be sure to buy the correct one. pm me for additional info and availability.
Nor is it the yellow Dino section…regardless of what color it used to be. Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
I see the door jamb plate one one picture showing September 1972 & the #4486 chassis number. I am asking for photographs of all of the VIN, engine and gearbox serial #s as miurasv suggested. And no, I have not seen the car myself. I have a person who I bought a '54 XK120 from the UK 2 years ago. Took 7 months to get to California...! Very similar circumstances - lots of discussions and pics/video but at the end, I bought it without going there. He sold me a wonderful car - really no surprises. Knowing each car is different and could have a very different ending, I am thinking of seeing if he can go see the car on my behalf. In any event, I will have discussions with the seller and the dealer Classiche technician tomorrow. That technician, according to the sales information "Since arriving with us chassis 4486 has had the experienced-hand and attention of our Classiche Technician who has given her a clean bill of health.". We'll see how much of the car he has really checked out. I am also owed a cold start video. One thing that I took away from the 2015 to 2022 maintenance records was that the oil sender unit was replaced 3 times. Last time it burst and that was why there was an oil mess in the engine, according to the record. I have a Jaguar E-type and know these sender units are notoriously unreliable but three times? I saw another Dino's maintenance record and the oil sender unit was also replaced. To me, I need to know if the oil pressure is too high, or something else is going on. The interior is vinyl but looks great. That's correctable to leather, maybe Daytona pattern if I feel it isn't enough but I am fine with it. One Q: Anybody know how many Dinos were finished in vinyl vs leather? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thank you for your reply with the pic of the door jamb with ID plate. Nice XK140. Although some of the pictures of #04486 can still be seen on line, other detail pictures on the Dick Lovett web site have now been removed as it's marked as sold. It should also have a type plate on the rear firewall between the engine and trunk/boot. US models should have an information plate inside the glove box lid as well, which includes tyre size and pressure info. May I ask where the engine and gearbox numbers that you quoted came from? Were they noted as being taken from the car? Not trying to sound condescending, but it would have been better to have conducted your checks before agreeing to buy the car. I appreciate that your agreement may be subject to certain conditions being met. As it only has history since being in the UK, which is from 2015, there are 45 years of history missing. I would certainly reach out and employ the services of Marcel Massini, who will be able to give you the correct original spec of the car and may be able to help you to fill that 45 year gap with ownership history and any adverse information/if any accident history is known etc. Please do not misunderstand me, I am not trying to be negative about #04486 which may well be in great health, but so far, it doesn't sound like the selling dealer DL has done the proper checks on it to give it a clean bill of health if the salesman couldn't clarify if it's matching numbers in the video. This is basic due diligence that they should already have done themselves. To be honest I find this shocking. Matching the chassis number on the car with the chassis number on the UK V5 registration document in the video, which did not indicate the engine number, is no proof at all of matching numbers. Have DL checked the compression of the cylinders? I'd certainly get someone who knows Dinos to physically inspect the car for mechanical condition, rust and accident damage. I found it funny that in the video the salesman states the certificate of omissions is there, referring to the US emissions data plate underneath the engine lid, but there is no US emissions equipment installed on the car. In my previous post I stated that it had been serviced by Bob Houghton since being in the UK, but it's also had work done by Prestige and Performance in Oxfordshire prior to that, as you will have seen from the photographs that have been sent to you. See above. Most Dino interiors were done in vinyl but the US versions mainly had leather, at least for the seats as far as I know. If it did originally have vinyl seats, I believe the stitching in the bends at the sides was omitted by the time #04486 was supplied new.
No problem! Glad and appreciative to have any help evaluating this car. I also noticed that the car has a "sold" status. This is more like sold contingent on the condition that I check some things out. Right now I have a refundable deposit. The two areas are (i) confirming the matching engine/gearbox and (ii) more information about the mechanical status of the car. For the former, they lifted the numbers I shared from the car itself. They are also getting the confirmation from Ferrari. I have asked for pics of the VIN & other numbers sent to me for my own checks. I have also PM'd Marcel about this. For the mechanical status, they will share a compression test, cold start video, and I may ask for a 3rd party to check.
@fhenley I thought about the above afterwards and I can't see that the salesman and the Official Ferrari Dealer Dick Lovett will not have done their due diligence, so my apologies to them for that. All credit to the salesman actually for stating there is no paperwork/history with the car prior to it being in the UK. It may well be the case that Dick Lovett, even though they are an Official Ferrari Dealer, will not have access to the engine and transaxle numbers from Ferrari unless they submit the car for a Classiche Red Book. As the car will not pass due to it not being in original US spec, I doubt they will do that. As you have confirmed the numbers are said to have come off the car, and Marcel Massini has very kindly confirmed that the engine and transaxle numbers you quoted are the original ones, you already have your answer regarding the matching engine/transaxle numbers status of the car.
Please can you post some of the pics of the car in bare metal. The front bumpers only have single brackets and possibly the rear bumpers too. A US Dino in this chassis range with a US type trunk/boot and parallel wipers should have double brackets on the bumpers. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Should be like this. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes, I got Marcel’s confirmation of the matching numbers given the numbers I supplied. Since then, the seller did share the actual photographs. They had to get the car on a lift to do so. I am still checking for the matching on my end with a Bay Area Ferrari dealership and the seller is also reaching out to Ferrari. So be I know these numbers are matching, I am not concerned about this. I got a cold start video and will be talking to the technician early next week to cover more about the car’s mechanism status. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Interesting. I will mention this to the seller but I realize I don’t have good pictures of the chassis work/restoration done in Japan. I was remembering the pictures of the engine taken apart in Japan that is in the video. The mental image I had for the chassis was about another set of pictures of another car I was looking at. I have seen maybe 15 cars and I mixed them in my head. I’ll see what that could mean. Would that be another trim/configuration like a European version? Or bumpers from another year? I had a XKE Jaguar that was a ‘74 but someone a while ago changed the « Dolly Parton » ugly bumbers that was a visual disaster for this car to the ´72 style bumpers. Maybe something like that? I don’t see why this would be changed except as part of the work to remove US equipment because the ´73 bumpers certainly didn’t look bad. Seems like a lot of work for little gain, and moving it even further away from original.
Early US Dinos did not have the double brackets on the bumpers. Chassis number #04268, a US spec/supplied 246 GTS does not have them and still has the clapper wipers, the boot/trunk without the longitudinal beams and the concave ends to to the rear bumpers at the licence plate ends. However, I've seen the US specification with ALL the updated features on chassis numbers at least 100 before #04486. The double bumper brackets may have been missed on #04486 by the factory but I've not seen one without the double brackets with the later US boot/trunk, parallel wipers and smooth/flush bumper ends. The front bumpers curl into the radiator grille on all US spec cars, but generally they do not on other E Series Dinos. #04486 may not have the double brackets from the admittedly blurry screen shot below from the DL video. However, the second bracket may be concealed by the red light above it. Has one bracket been cut off even? The bumpers do appear to be affixed closer to the the body as the earlier US Dinos and and non US Dinos were. Image Unavailable, Please Login US Dino #07826 showing its double rear bumper brackets. Image Unavailable, Please Login Also here. Image Unavailable, Please Login You could ask the DL salesman to send you clear pictures of the brackets on the rear bumpers to know for sure. Perhaps @GermanDino Matthias, who's Dino Compendium you should certainly buy, can clarify whether or not a US Dino should have double bumper brackets in the #04486 chassis range. I've no idea for certain what it means if it should have the double brackets on the front and rear bumpers and does not have them, but it could be that it's had work/repairs in those areas of the body or even replacement body panels as there are double protrusions on those areas of the body itself on Dinos with double bumper brackets.
My apologies. I forgot to state above that the pictures of US Dino #07826 showing the rear bumper double brackets are from the restoration of that car by Fast Cars Ltd of Redondo Beach, CA, USA.
I did say generally but to be more specific the front bumpers do curl into the radiator grille on early E series Dinos.
