Dino versus Boxer Pricing?

I'm still surprised the Bb series has not consistently surpassed the Dino.

Less bb's were made combined, a 12 banger flag ship car, plus carb.

Makes no sense to me why.

 

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Just curious--do boxers have the problem with seizing studs that make it possible to remove the heads?

What about the diff failure problem?

 

Diff failure problem does exist.

As to value, pretty hard to draw a definitive conclusion as it is so condition dependent and whether you are talking about a Dino GT or GTS versus carbed or injected boxer. That being said, there does seem to be a lot more rougher 246 GT's on the market now versus GTS's --- and most of these rougher cars can probably be bought in the mid to upper 2's. I see few if any boxers selling in that range. I think a good BBi is now on the same level as a good non chairs and flares GTS, meaning asking in the low to mid 4's with actually selling price around high 3's to 400. Also, as a general observation it seems as though dealers are pushing prices up on boxers now with few cars on offer with an asking price in the 3's ---- versus Dino's which have now been flat for at least 12 months. Fyi, I do follow both markets pretty closely and am aware of most cars on the market and recent auction results. Additionally, I just bought a Dino right after Monterey and purchased my boxer 2 years ago.

 

Interesting point I have a very nice 246 Gt and have mildly considered would I trade it for a Boxer as I kind of like them also .. But the problem is in my opinion the DINOs have a more vintage look and feel and are by far are more beautiful . Non of these cars have the power level of the more modern cars such as a 360 through F12... So I am not really surprised the dinos trade for at least as much as a boxer. as I would not trade mine for a similar quality boxer..
of course this is just my opinion....

 

I love the look of the Dino. Agree that the vintage look (to me) evokes that feeling I get when I see a Lusso. But, I also love the look of the Boxer. Super classy show car look with styling queues all over that are stunning! I just noticed the BB upper seat belt mount and paused. Even these details are so elegantly thought out. Also, when you open the rear clamshell and view all that machinery in the BB, that is incredible.

It's a very personal call.

 

Boxer is the ugly step sister to the Dino.

I remember years ago having a conversation with the folks at Algar Ferrari about a boxer. ( I owned my Dino at the time and was considering one as an addition/maybe trade.)

The folks there steered me away from it, and sold it to another guy who flipped in and out of cars like most of us change underwear. Their position was most Boxer buyers get tired of them pretty quickly. I don't recall exactly, but I think they're heavy to drive, don't go particularly fast, and are a pricey ***** to maintain.

True to form, the guy the sold it to traded it in less than 3 months later.

 

I disagree, proper Euro trim BB will eat a Dino alive. They are heavier to drive but they are a more powerful car. I am not disparaging the Dino, I think that Dino's and BB's are terrific cars.

 

Two different markets that intersect at price only.

The Boxer is the original Supercar.
Mid engined flat 12 with a connection to racing.

The Dino is a vintage Ferrari that is reliable with far fewer parts or maintenance required.

For example, a friend's Boxer had running problems and I gave him a ride to pick it up. Turns out the Boxer distributor used nylon bushings in the advance weights and they degrade from the word go. The bill was huge.

 

I've never driven a boxer but I think that the preference many have for the dino is probably a preference for a nimble sports car as opposed to a powerful GT car. They are just different...

By the way, a couple of years ago I came across an interview with, if I'm not mistaken, Luigi Chinetti Jr. in which he was pretty dismissive of the boxer's handling. I guess the engine sits on top of the transmission which in his view was unacceptable as it raises the center of gravity in the back too much thus very much compromising handling. I believe this was the case with testarossas as well. That's the kind of thing that happens when road cars get far removed from the racing effort...

 

The boxer engine does sit on top of the transmission, and at the limit it does have an effect especialy if you back off. But the real flaw which exacerbates everything is the absolute crap trx tires, rubber which was basicaly designed for a BMW 6 series. Corner hard and the tread is one wheel with away from the rim, such is the sidewall stretch. Below 91/10ths its all fine, but when adhesion is lost that stretch sidewall is pulling the tread back in line under the rim, plus you have the effects of lost traction due to speed..

If one goes to 17 in wheels, of which there are now a number of suppliers(with the boxer wheel design) then more modern rubber can be used and the boxer is in fact a very predictable handler. Its responses are more big lotus than bland Gt or modern anodyne ps steering sportscar.

To put numbers to it, Nick masons BBLm was 4 secs faster around goodwood than his F40. A BBLM being a stripped boxer with slicks, same tub same suspension. Point is boxers actualy are stiff tubs and great suspension, they juts need rubber to unlock the talent.

Speaking of talent, its always going to take some talent to drive a boxer same a it takes talent to drive a aircooled 911 fast. If you come from an easy car a boxer may wear thin really quick.

Get a boxer on the right road and in the right mood its really sublime, small and light by modern standards. In fact boxers are really narrow compared to a Tr, small even compared to a 458.

At lower speeds steering is heavy, you will also cook in the greenhouse in the sun. The boxer can handle traffic just fine, but on a hot day the driver may not.

Its a big engined open road car which requires a deliberate driving style. Some can handle that, many cant. While a Miata or modern lotus can replicate what a dino does drive wise, nothing replicates a boxer, which is essentialy a early 70's can am car for the road. Efite drivers need not apply.

Like an aircooled 911 if you master it, then you can do things most other cars cant.
A drive with my local fclub indicates that on the road an agressively driven boxer will hang with or outdrive a modern according to the whims of the driver, on track a boxer with decent rubber is 355 fast per lap, but will get smoked by a 360.

Like many things its an aquired taste, a very origional machine, special in the way that older 12 cyl ferraris always were, the classic big engined ferrari driving experience, yet able to mix with modern ferrais on the road.

My impression of a dino is its almost everyday useable and easy, has classic 60s lines, but thats what it was designed to do. A well running boxer is a dragon slayer.

 

Thanks Pete, If you are in town next weekend come by the Ferrari show at Morrison. I will have a couple of my cars out there, including my new Dino.

 

Yes I would agree with that, I used my 246 at the recent Goodwood revival and it was perfect in every sense, beautiful to drive on open country roads, easy in traffic queues, (plenty of them) fine crossing grassy fields and economical at 25mpg.

It received loads of attention in the car park for a 40 year old car design, much more than many newer versions and the boot was big enough to handle all my wifes clothes for the long weekend. (added bonus)

 

I love dinos, just to get that out front. Wanted and looked for one back in 99, wound up with an etype one of many other of my other boyhood loves.

I have a BBi and a 308QV. Boxer is so much more car than a Dino or a 308. It's a car you drive for total exhilaration. As for handling, it is heavy but I've pushed into corners and even with the crap TRX tires, it's not bad at all. Major drawbacks are heavy steering at slow speeds and insane cabin heat on days over 80 degrees F.

As for power a boxer is not far behind a 360, especially in 2nd, 3rd, or 4th gear at 4K rpm, pulls like a jetliner, very smooth acceleration. Would I trade a boxer for a Dino, yep only because I can't afford both, so at some point I would try as I may have to scratch that itch before the end. Would I trade a Dino for a boxer yep if I never had a boxer.

 

When I was shopping for a classic Ferrari a few years back the choice came down to a driver 246 or a carbed Boxer.
Lets see... a V-6 not-a-Ferrari ( ) or Ferrari's hand made supercar of the day....
Hmnnnnn...
Decisions decisions...

 

Who cares about the price trends or relative pricing. They are what they are and both are gorgeous cars. I don't get this competition concept between the older cars that aren't really comparable. I grew up admiring the design elements of both and both have plus and minus depending on use.

You cannot really go wrong with either if you can afford either.

 

Hi Peter,
A good 246 Dino GTS will always be priced higher than any Boxer, a quick scan through the classifieds should demonstrate this , at present.
Taking all emotion out, as you ask, i would think if you had to be investing in one of these cars, then for the medium to long term it would have to be the Dino as it is a timeless classic and will always be in demand to the wider cross section of motoring enthusiasts ..... shorter term , probably a 365/512BB is the way to go . Both only heading in one direction, by the looks of it...... Just depends on your personal time line.
BR,
Jez

 

For investment, I was told by a collector that the boxer has perceived weaknesses (cited:differential) and the styling is not as popular (e.g. dashboard).
It has dual everything which is a consideration for maintenance costs.
Above is not my opinion, just what someone who lives in the collector world told me who owns a Dino.

Broad appeal will win, I'm not sure the boxer ticks all the boxes... As it were.

 

I don't buy cars as investments, but I sincerely doubt a diff issue and mait come into play.

Peter has made an interesting point many times in the past. There really have not been Newman restored level of Boxers in auctions. Many more Dino's selling which have been beautifully restored. As usual only time will tell.

Love them both.

Pete we must have been typing at the same time ironic my post comes after yours.

 

A 206 is the most highly valued of the Dino series. Gooding sold s/n 0320 for $803,000 at PB last month;also sold a Fly Yellow 206 the year before for approx. $750,000 IIRC.