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DINO vs 911

Discussion in '206/246' started by 4CamGT, Sep 8, 2018.

  1. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
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    The Dino and the 911 have been long been compared since the Dino was available in ‘68. It has been interesting to watch their journeys and their impact. Porsche has continued with the 911 formula and offers a bouquet of models and versions. The 488 is Ferrari’s current iteration, also with multiple models and versions. It’s interesting to debate who has done it better and who has listened better to the enthusiast.

    I’m more of a “grassroots” enthusiast. I love simplicity and analog when it comes to a pure driving experience. Porsche has responded with the 911R, the GT3 with manual and now with the entry level Carrera T that can be ordered with “delete” options, manual gearbox and lightweight carbon sport seats. All for a better interactive driving experience. For my daily driving, I have a crossover with lots of luggage space that I can park anywhere without worrying about it.

    I’m hoping that Ferrari responds with something more pure and simple. Even a manual gearbox option would make the appeal go way up for me.

    Porsche is on fire with the relationships they have with their customers no matter how old or which model Porsche you own. The Porsche Club events are fun and all inviting such as the Werks Reunion at Monterey. the factory backed Rennsport Reunions, Luftgekühlt, RGRUPPE etc etc. The aftermarket and factory parts support for older Porsches is really strong and organized. What is Ferrari’s strategy with Dino owners (or any other older Ferrari)? I feel a bit of an orphan when I go to a Ferrari dealer. Nothing there for me there! No new Ferrari that appeals to me, no parts for my Dino, no events etc. I love my Dino regardless and love the support that this forum gives us. A real shame that Ferrari doesn’t recognize this!

    Freeman
     
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  2. pshoejberg

    pshoejberg Formula Junior
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    Excellent write up Freeman. I have one of each and know excatly what you mean. Owing a classic ferrari is a very lonely experience except from the support you get from this forum or if you can affort to, or is willing to, be ripped off in Maranello's classical department. But I kind of think that this lonely journy is a part of the "Ferrari" charme. Like spending days and weeks sourcing spare sparts or having to make them your self for that matter....That is not all that bad.

    Best Peter
     
  3. cls

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    A 911R competitor from Ferrari?
    That would be a great day.
     
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  4. 4CamGT

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    It would be a modern SWB!
     
  5. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    I, too, have one of each, but my 911 is of a later generation (964), so it is harder to make direct comparisons. However, your points are well made.

    Your pictures tell a story rather well: the Dino is not a large car, but the 911 is noticeably smaller, yet has two more seats (albeit for children), making it a more practical, useable car. Although both have grown over the years, the Ferrari has grown far more than the 911, particularly in the width, which can be a problem (whether it be in fitting into supermarket parking spaces, or hustling down narrow country roads) and the 911 still has the two extra seats. So, while the Ferrari may be able to match the 911 as a pure driver's car, it doesn't come near the 911 in doing what the 911 does best: combining a great driver's car and a practical DD in one vehicle.
     
  6. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
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    The Dino DNA that made it special is long gone in anything that Ferrari puts out today.
     
  7. nis1973

    nis1973 Formula Junior

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    I’m with you, these pics made me appreciate how small and well packaged the early 911s were.
     
  8. racerboy9

    racerboy9 Formula 3
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    Remember the Dino has a much bigger trunk than the 911. More room for luggage and a child or two if need be.
     
  9. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    I remember reading a magazine article in the late 70s I think comparing a silver Dino to a 911 Carrera and thought how can anyone prefer a 911 to a Dino? I mean just look at it. :)
     
  10. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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    I agree. None of its successors have had the same beauty and delicacy that the Dino possesses, and with each generation they have moved further away from the essence of the original in search of more performance to the point where they have lost what made the original so amazing. The 911, on the other hand, has remained much truer to the original design and I would argue that it still has the essence of the original, notwithstanding the many changes that have taken place, even the big one - the change to a water-cooled engine.

    True, but if the Dino were the same length as a 911, it probably wouldn't have a boot at all. And if you are only using two seats in the 911, there is plenty of luggage space on the platform formed by folding down the rear seats.

    Also true. The 911 is the car you buy with your head, but the Dino is the one you buy with your heart.
     
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  11. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    What you say is true, Freeman. But even 911s have become much larger now. I bought a Cayman 718 earlier this year and find that it's about the right size. Now if Ferrari would build an equivalent; I would be very interested. Having had some ecperience with dual-clutch gearboxes now, i would probably opt for that versus a manual box. It would make the comparison with my '72 Dino more complete.

    Andres
     
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  12. abstamaria

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    My 718 when i picked it up from the dealer. I like the size (it could be a big smaller) and the rear. It is proably a better equivalent to our Dinos than the new 911s.

    Andres
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  13. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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  14. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3
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    Porsche has taken the “911” formula and spread it out with multiple 911 variants and are recognizing that the Cayman is becoming the entry level. This allows them to reset their pricing structure lower down and build it up to the GT4. Maybe an RSR is in the future? They had a smaller flat 4 mid engine car planned with VW. This was nixed a few years ago. They then planned instead to put the flat four into the Boxster/Cayman. I still think there’s a “Goldilocks” smaller car that fits between an early 911 and a 992 with a modern 1.6 to 2 liter flat 6 4 cam direct injection. I think if Porsche did this, the customers would come.
     
  15. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    Image Unavailable, Please Login It might just be electric, Freeman. The latest issue of Christophorus says by 2025 50% of Porsches will be electric.

    I hope Ferrari will build a Cayman equivalent.

    Andres
     
  16. 2GT

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    Congratulations on the lovely 718 Cayman, Andres! I traded a 2007 987 Cayman last year on a 2018 AMG GT. I loved my Cayman, but it was nothing compared with the 718!


    Freeman, the only thing a Ferrari dealer cares about regarding a Dino is whether you would trade them one so they could sell it for a huge profit. I must add, however, that in 2013, I sent my Dino to Algar (coincidentally, the original selling dealer) for a complete mechanical refurbishing, and they did a magnificent job. You are correct, however, in stating that factory support for Dinos is non-existent, absent the intervention of the Classiche Department (something in which I have no interest). Ferrari doesn't seem interested in looking in the rear-view mirror!
    Regards,
    Fred
     
  17. Neelfryer

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    so I have both as well - I just put my '71 S Targa in our living room - it was insane - I had to reinforce the floor in that area - I had to have accordion doors installed - I had to buy 80" metal ramps and then I had to drive the car through a somewhat narrow pocket to get it in

    I considered putting my DINO in that same spot - But I like driving the DINO - this 911 ... I call it Chaos - driving it is awesome - but its a bit of chaos - oversteer and all weight and power feeling like it comes from the way way back ...

    I may swap them at some point - but I really bought that 911 because that color just killed me and I jumped on it
     
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  18. 4CamGT

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    In 1994 my colleagues and I created “Concept 1” for VW, the rebirth of the VW Beetle. The concept was about the size of the first Beetle but with a wider stance and wheels to the ends. Modern design and details (including the vase!). We originally envisioned it with three power trains, EC, Hybrid and a full electric on a skateboard chassis/modular composite body. Our vision for the future was also to look in the rear view mirror. To relive a simpler time where our experiences had meaning. If you have this equity, why not leverage it? Remember, this was 24 years ago! VW’s latest concept, to me is well executed. It just lacks soul and is a “me too” product.

    Today, things are changing. I believe, when Porsche goes electric, either full or assisted, they will follow their DNA and stay focused on the driving experience and their history. Character development on a product is the result of the team and the culture that creates it. The body design is the vessel that has the opportunity to create aspiration and emotions that is the human attraction. Believe it or not, most boardrooms just aren’t talented enough and only listen to themselves. This creates the “me too” products that are overcrowding our roads!

    Ferrari has a big opportunity to leverage its past to navigate this new future. I’m not talking retro design. Far from it! It means a certain respect for its history and the products that created it. These products need to be supported and cherished. This means more than just putting a vintage Ferrari on a stage next to the new one. I am talking about the ultimate user experience (UX)!

    Freeman
     

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  19. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Rookie
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  20. mar3kl

    mar3kl Formula Junior

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    I have a 718 Cayman along with the Dino - seeing them side by side is always a little disconcerting because the Cayman is a "small" car but dwarfs the Dino. Like looking at photos of original and new Minis together.
     
  21. MarkT

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    From the time I bought my Dino in 1974- for the next 20 or so years, I concurrently owned a 911 and 2-3 356s. I would ride all of them often back to back.

    From 1974 to 1985 I had a '74 Carrara. I used to tell my friends who cared-- that the 911 was like a hammer through the turns while the Dino was a knife.

    The 911 depended upon a stiff suspension to get the job done- but the joy of hammering it through a turn was using the gas pedal to surf the power of the motor to keep you going a bit sideways and the backend where you wanted it to stay.

    The Dino had a more sophisticated suspension- using a much softer suspension and great damper tuning. You gracefully carve through turns at the same speeds or higher then the 911. Sliding all four wheels sideways when you overcooked a turn- was much more abrupt than the rear end slide of the 911.

    I bought a Turbo-look (code M491)in 1985. As beautiful as the M491 was and still is--- it was way-way more boring than the '74 Carrara. You could really storm through turns just as quick- but the use of the gas pedal to steer the early 911's which made driving the 911 so much fun was gone. Even the '74 was less fun then the 1969 911 I bought when I first got out of college.

    I owned the Turbo-look for another ten years and it was the last 911 I have owned. In the end-- my 356's were way more fun than any 911 I have owned-- so I have kept them and my '61 cab set up for autocross which is my everyday three season Porsche
     

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  22. cnpapa24

    cnpapa24 F1 Rookie
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    Nice experience. Thanks for sharing!
     
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  23. isuk

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    The Cayman is built on the same platform as the 911 so there is very little difference in size. The 718 is only 12cm (less than 5") shorter than the 911 Carrera with marginal differences in either height or width so it is only perception (due to the lack of rear seats I suspect) that makes people think it is smaller.

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    I've had quite a few Caymans (current one is a 718) but the most fun to drive was the 987 R version which had just the right amount of rawness to make it feel special yet could still easily be driven and enjoyed as a daily.

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  24. Smiles

    Smiles Moderator
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    I have a 993. It’s a wonderful continuation of the 911 that was first unveiled in 1963.

    I only wish the Dino had lived as lived as long. I have a 308, and it’s not a Dino continuation.

    Matt
     

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