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Distributor plate covers for US spec 2v carb engine?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Mike328, Jan 21, 2004.

  1. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    I'm putting on an electromotive electronic ignition, and wanted to see if it was possible to put on distributor cover plates in place of the distributor on a US-spec carbed 2v 308 engine.

    Here's a picture:
    http://www.nicksforzaferrari.com/forzaferrariwebsite1008.htm

    I *think* this is a US engine...

    What is involved here? I need a plug for the cams, right?

    Any ideas for sources on the distributor cover plates?

    --Mike
     
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  3. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    You can probably get one from the dealer. Mine has a part number on it but Im not at home at the moment.
     
  4. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Ah... Suggesting that those would be the ones that single-distributor Euro cars used?
     
  5. 1975gt4don

    1975gt4don Formula Junior

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    Mike, no plug needed for camshaft as the entire distributor baseplate will cover the complete opening that the distributor would have occupied.

    You can probably obtain a distributor plate from Nick for a cheap price, or just have any machine shop fabricate one for you from scratch, all you would need is the baseplate or the distributor camseal housing or the camseal housing gasket to give the machine shop a template.

     
  6. Sean F.

    Sean F. F1 Rookie

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    Earlier model 308's will need a plug and a cover.

    Norwood also sells these plugs and covers. You can use epoxy to hold in the plug, or have it tack welded in.

    www.norwoodperformance.com
     
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  8. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Right. I've contacted Nick, I think he said he used them but there was some issue now, maybe needed to have them re-fabbed or something. I'll find the email...

    So, does the plate itself bolt right on or is there some gaket between it and the engine?
     
  9. pogibm

    pogibm Karting

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    Mike, talk to Kermit he's the one that use to makes those custom parts for Nick, he can be reached at durable1.com tel.# 306 366-4107.
     
  10. 1975gt4don

    1975gt4don Formula Junior

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    Sean F is correct, what was I thinking by telling you that you don't need to plug the end of the cam? Ha. You will need to plug the end of the cam with a plug. The distributor plate should be affixed to the head via a gasket with sealer.

     
  11. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Yes, the cap that bolts onto the end of the head. You remove the distributor and this cover and a gasket replaces it. I didnt know about the cam plug for the distributor spline drive. Mine was already done when I bought the car.
     
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  13. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Thanks for your help, guys.

    I just talked to Norwood's. They have them. However, the cams have to be "plugged" manually, since the distributor would otherwise to it.

    I'm a bit worried about this... James says they use a 5/8" "Freeze Plug" that has to be sanded down a bit and then jammed really hard in the hole. The plug is short enough to where it stops before the splited/grooved part of the cam plug hole. He then says it's best that the end is tack welded, while others have used epoxy. He says the plug ends up being flush with the end of the cam face, and the distributor plate fits right over. The gasket at this point is optional, since the cam is plugged anyway. His are aluminum.

    One concern I have is the reversibility. James says it's reversible, you have to drill the freeze plug and then use a hammer to tap it out... There is some risk of messing up the whole and then you've may have some o-ring seals that might not seal as well should the distributors ever go back on.

    Anyways, $25 a piece with the plugs...

    I think I'm going to leave them on for a while when I get the electromotive on, and then see if I still feel like removing them.
     
  14. bill308

    bill308 Formula 3
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    I believe the later carb cars had a proper plug in the cams from the factory. My 78 had them. When I fitted my Electromotive system I removed the distributors but left the base plate and gasket in place as the 3/8 in aluminum plates I fabricated would have needed a relief machined in the inner surface to clear the end of the cam. I also cut a new gasket to seal the end plates to the base plate as there is still oil present under the valve covers. Some day I'll remove the base plates, and machine a relief in the fabricated covers to clean up the installation.
     
  15. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Bill, if the later carb cars had plugs, how did the distributor's splined "male" piece fit inside the cam to rotate?
     
  16. bill308

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    #13 bill308, Jan 21, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Mike,

    A fellow Fchatter sent me a copy of Ferrari "Technical Information No 321" describing oil plugs 112547 hopefully posted below. Sorry for the poor resolution but that's a board limit. I can provide a better copy if you email me with your email address.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. pma1010

    pma1010 F1 Rookie

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    When we did the Electromotive on my 77, my tech noticed no plugs (I believe it was incorporated on the 78/79 cars). I had a local machine shop make a couple of plugs and press them in ($70). I remember we gave the machinist the cams and he had it done in 30 mins or so. I recall he told my tech he was not qualified to measure it (you've got to have good equipment to get it accurate)! As Bill's diagram suggests, no need to remove the plugs if you ever want to go back to the dizzy's.

    On the covers, Nick had some (beautiful, spun pieces) but as I recall they were quite expensive. My tech obtained some aluminum sheet and cut and ground to size to match the distrib base plates. I don't know if he had to cut reliefs or not. Total costs was probably an hour or so of machine shop time. Anyway, nothing a reasonably competant shop can't handle.

    BTW, the HPX has been flawless over the 2 years it has been installed. I just had to put some silicon on the power lead to the relay from the starter (battery) to stop it working its way out.

    HTH
    Philip
     
  18. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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    Hi Bill,

    Can you email me the hi-res version of that bulletin? If you don't mind, I can find a place to host it and put a link to it in this thead.

    What I don't understand is, if my cams are plugged, then do I need to have them plugged, or will Nick's or Norwood's distributor plates just fit right over them?

    I've got a 78 (with a different cam profile than 76/77, which may be related), I'm thinking it has these plugs already?
     
  19. bill308

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    Mike,

    I'd be happy to email you a high res copy of the Tech info. Send me your email address.

    I've been running cover plates on my 78 for two years now and have experienced no problems. Oil pressure remains good.
     
  20. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #17 Newman, Jan 23, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    for what its worth, heres a pic of the factory cover. You should be able to read the number or I can drag my butt out to the garage to look for you.
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  21. Robert Johnson

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    For what it's worth, my "79 had plugs in the camsfrom the factory and I got a cover from Norwood. I suggest you pull one dizzy and put something like a small allenwrench in the end of the cam. If there is a plug you will feel it. If there's not, put the freeze plug in it. It's no big deal and the reality is that your not going back to distributors because the Electromotive or any other ignition upgrade is such a better way to go. Good luck.
    Robert
     
  22. Matt Morgan, "Kermit"

    Matt Morgan, "Kermit" Formula Junior

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    #19 Matt Morgan, "Kermit", Jan 24, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Mike, Sorry for not getting in touch with you sooner on this. Durable 1 Inc, was the producer of all of those parts previously offfered by NFF. As I am setting up my own site , that will sell direct, the same quality will be avalilble soon, and with one les person between the customer and the manufacturer, price will soon be posted and wil be more consumer friendly. New stuff is being added to the site as fast as we can, as R&D never stopped. I haven't gotten the chance to have the new styly cam plugs onto the site yet, (hope the pic coms thru, as I'm getting the "Hang Of This").
    Competively priced, these use a cup seal (Buna N of course) that is the same principal as the old wheel cylinerds, the more pressure, the tighter the seal. Note that the one with 2 pins is for the 4 valve. As we know midyear changes are almost a Ferrari trademark, and as this model features both, in the proper locations, before the cover comes off, you know you have the right one. The base material is aircraft grade aluminum, of couse.
    this allows the addition of smaller end covers.
    HTH
    Kermit
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  23. Mike328

    Mike328 F1 Rookie
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  24. Nick

    Nick Formula Junior
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    With respect to Mike Procopio’s car I am sure that cam end plugs are not a issue, but in my opinion its a unnecessary expense unless you are going for a detailed custom modified engine, most people are concerned about being able to return the car back to OEM if needed quickly in case of a sale of the vehicle. Another point to make, (and this has happened to a customer), he has sold his car, but the deal is that the 308 is put back to STOCK, so he removed the Electromotive, goes to put on his old distributors and they are partially frozen/ rusted etc.due to the fact that they have been sitting for a few years, the person wanting to buy the car wants the car put back to stock to close the deal. The guy is scrambling to find someone who has a dist machine who can re furbish his distributors because they have been removed from the car, also if you leave the distributors in place you do not risk breaking a camshaft while trying to remove the pins out of the rotor/dist end if you have the old style camshafts, lets keep in mind that there is that possibility of damaging a engine component that is expensive to replace if you do not remove the cams to do this modification, remember Ferrari recommends that its technicians remove the camshafts from the car when the cam end plug modification is done (remember the cams are hollow.) Unless you are experienced with how delicate Ferrari camshafts are, leave the distributor in place it will do your car no harm. If you wish to purchase covers, have a local machine shop fab some up using the gasket as a template for the carb cars, on the injected 2 & 4 valve cars, fab up a aluminum dist cap cover, use the OEM cap as a template and leave the OEM rotor cam end assembly alone. They are avail from me also; it’s no big deal. Some people’s only concern is just selling items for Money, my concern is keeping FELLOW Ferrari owners in the know of what possible consequences could happen when you start modifying your prized possession, If you own a Ferrari, you will understand, if you do not, you never will.
    Ferrari chat’s oldest Sponsor www.nicksforzaferrari.com
     

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