DIY 348 engine out question | Page 2 | FerrariChat

DIY 348 engine out question

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by ShanB, Mar 8, 2004.

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  1. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #26 ShanB, Mar 11, 2004
    Thanks guys! Getting the engine out took me about six hours of mostly single-handed work. It was straight forward and I spent more time checking and double checking connections than actual wrench turning. I followed the diagrams in the parts manual (a definite must-have) and used the directions from Ernie's posts on F-chat archives as a guide. I then had a friend help lift the chassis and watch for hang-ups, missed connections and such, but really it was not very difficult. I just had to mentally get past the fact of "here I am removing this physically large object from this expensive machine"... and voila!

    I have to say I have a whole new appreciation for how well-thought out the car is designed given the limitations of space and the laws of physics. These cars are rolling works of art.

    Here are some pics of the empty engine bay:
     
  2. vref

    vref Karting

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    #27 vref, Mar 11, 2004
    Thanks for the excellent pics! Nice job on the DIY and thanks for sharing.
     
  3. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #28 ShanB, Mar 11, 2004
    You're welcome. I've gotten a lot of help from some folks on this list and am happy to give something back. I'm an "intermediate amateur" level home mechanic at best, but always learning!

    How's Houston these days? I lived there for a year not to long ago - humid summers, big tiger mosquitoes and great restaurants! Loved Galveston.
     
  4. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #29 Miltonian, Mar 12, 2004
    Curious about one thing. When you tackle a job like this at home, and you have to disconnect the A/C compressor, do you take it somewhere and have the system evacuated before you start? Otherwise, you're dumping freon into the atmosphere, aren't you? And you have to take it somewhere to have the system recharged, right? That must be spendy.

    My 348 is due for a big service, I'd like to do it myself, so I'll be following your posts with interest. Thanks!
     
  5. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #30 ShanB, Mar 12, 2004
    Jeff - The A/C system has to be evacuated before you start.
     
  6. kenyon

    kenyon F1 Rookie

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    #31 kenyon, Mar 12, 2004
    Doing your own servicing is great but will this not effect the service history when you come and sell it. Many buyers want a fully documented aopproved ferrari specilaist/garage service...

    The photos will help a lot. Thanks. What height do you need to get the engine and engine cradle form underneath the car ???
     
  7. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #32 ShanB, Mar 12, 2004
    Kenyon - I agree that it does affect the service history, but so what? I'm not selling. I bought a 348 because they're cheap, fast & fun. I want to enjoy the car to the fullest and not save it for "the next guy". For me that means getting my hands a little dirty now and then, learning about my car and looking forward to slowly adding to the stable (maybe a 12-cylinder next?). That said, I am totally happy to pay an expert mechanic his/her due if I don't have time or can't do something myself.

    Once you take the rear bumper off there's enough clearance that the car doesn't need to come up that high to clear the motor. To get an idea, take a look at your own engine. Measure the distance from the bottom of your engine to the top of the intake and add about 3 inches for the dolly and that's how high the back of the car needs to go up.

    thanks,
    Shan
     
  8. khayes

    khayes Formula Junior

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    #33 khayes, Mar 13, 2004
    The only thing that I didn't change out on my car when I had the engine out major service in December was to change out the fuel pumps. Guess what, that was the first thing to go bad after getting the car back. It's getting new pumps now.

    The mechanic changed out my fuel sending unit so my fuel gauage would work and I would not have to keep the tank topped off all the time. Seems that letting the fuel level drop below a quarter tank allowed the fuel to get too warm and caused the pumps to go bad.

    Great job Shan. You are a very brave man. Keep the pictures coming, they are very interesting. I wonder if it takes longer to put the engine back in than it does to remove it. Six hours was pretty fast for a first timer.
     
  9. jkuk

    jkuk Formula Junior

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    #34 jkuk, Mar 13, 2004
    Hi 348UK

    Yes , it was in for a full 18K service (a 30k minus the valves clearance)

    Just got in back form JMH, Cheshire

    Cheers

    John
     
  10. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #35 ShanB, Mar 13, 2004
    On to the valve adjustment...
     
  11. vref

    vref Karting

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    #36 vref, Mar 13, 2004
    As you know Houston is beautiful this time of year, but the hot swamp like conditions are coming. I usually spend my summers in San Francisco, just cannot stand it here in June, July & august.


     
  12. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #37 ShanB, Mar 14, 2004
    Okay guys, removed and cleaned the cam covers & checked clearances and discovered quite a few valves out of spec, especially tight on the intake side. I made a chart for myself:
     
  13. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #38 ShanB, Mar 14, 2004
    I also noticed some rounding on the lateral edge of #8 intake but no change in cam lobe profile when measured so I'm not sure what to make of it. Any opinions from the experienced mechanics out there?
     
  14. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #39 ShanB, Mar 14, 2004
    The cam timing marks as mentioned in previous posts.
     
  15. vincent355

    vincent355 F1 Veteran
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    #40 vincent355, Mar 15, 2004
    thanks for the pictures Shan!

    Vincent.
     
  16. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

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    #41 Mitch Alsup, Mar 15, 2004
    I would be worried about that lobe. There is no particular reason for that lobe to have that kind of rolled nose. Check that the cams do not have more than a couple of thousandths of longitudinal play (walking), and seek redress.

    Note the nick at the other side of the lobe is designed to such oil onto the back side of the lobe and pull lubrication over the shim.
     
  17. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

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    #42 Miltonian, Mar 15, 2004
    On the "rolled nose" of the cam lobe - I remember seeing a picture taken at the Ferrari factory in the engine assembly department. It showed the man who was checking the camshafts after heat treatment (I think). He was smacking the cams with a hammer and could tell if a cam was "right" by the sound it made! I wonder (????) if maybe that could be related.
     
  18. vref

    vref Karting

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    #43 vref, Mar 16, 2004
    I would not be worried about the lobe as long as it measures out correctly. I have seen this numerous times in other cars. (honda, toyota). Worry about it later when the valve guides and cam bearings need to be replaced.

    It you hit a camshaft with a hammer, due to the type of metal its made out of it would break in 3 places. Been there done that. Hell I dropped one one on the ground once and it broke in half.
     
  19. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #44 ShanB, Mar 18, 2004
    With the camshafts removed, the shims were easy to remove and measure. I checked the shim thicknesses to figure out which shims I could swap vs order. As has been pointed out before, the printed thickness can vary widely from actual and they must all be measured if they need to be swapped out. For example, here's a 4.10 shim that actually measured 4.08mm. I wrote the measurements on the shims for later use.
     
  20. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #45 ShanB, Mar 18, 2004
    camshafts removed and out of the way:
     
  21. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #46 ShanB, Mar 18, 2004
    Here's a tip: So far the only challenge has been removing the idler bearing without damaging either the aluminum shield behind it or the pulley bracket. There problem is that there's very little room behind the bearing and most puller jaws simply won't fit. I read Ernie's tip about using a socket to leverage against and found a good quality two jaw puller with thin tips that fit perfectly. I used a deep socket with a washer on top as internal leverage for the puller. This was discussed in previous posts (thanks Ernie and Billybob) but I know some folks like myself need to see a picture to "get it". It worked great.
     
  22. rivee

    rivee F1 Rookie

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    #47 rivee, Mar 18, 2004
    ShanB, what I've been told on the valve shims is you can turn them over and use them if the side facing the cam lobe hasn't been used before. In other words if it has swirl marks on both sides of the shim, it's used, chuck it. Go to your local Volvo dealer and get the new shims there. Cheaper than Fdealer.
     
  23. Ferrari_tech

    Ferrari_tech Formula 3

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    #48 Ferrari_tech, Mar 18, 2004
    ShanB,

    Great job you're doing, however I would NOT put that camshaft back, almost certainly the case hardening is poor and in my opinion you have two alternatives - replace the camshaft or have the original "re-profiled"

    What was the condition of the valve shim that was running on that cam lobe ?

    Technically there is nothing wrong with turning over valve shims, it's still better to replace. Ferrari stamped one side of the valve shim with a small hardness test "spot", you will be able to see it with a magnifying glass, on the other side the size was marked in white numerals, this side was always inserted face down so when removed you could see the original size of the shim.


    MW
     
  24. dapper

    dapper Formula Junior

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    #49 dapper, Mar 18, 2004
    Probably talking rubbish, but isn't there a tool that will hold down each respective pair of valve shim 'buckets', once cam is slightly turned, to allow removal/replacement of shims without removing all the cam bearing caps and cam to do the shim swap around?

    I have used such a tool in the past when doing older 4 cyl 16 valve Honda motors. In that case, pre using the tool I was finding that the removal and replacement of the cam beariung caps and cam in itself gave different resultant gap values. So if cam removal can be avoided by using a tool that holds the edge of the bucket(s) whilst the cam is turned v'slightly, doing one, or in this case one pair at a time, it could make life a lot more predictable.

    At least the buckets aren't inverted, in that case there would definitely be no option
     
  25. ShanB

    ShanB Formula Junior

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    #50 ShanB, Mar 18, 2004
    Thanks guys. The cam lobe appears within spec despite its appearance. The associated shim looks fine and the shim bucket turns easily with no signs of abnormal wear or binding in the case. I am getting someone local to eyeball the camshaft and case just to be sure.

    David - yes I could have removed the shims without removing the shafts, but I wanted to replace the oil seals and examine the camshafts and shim buckets anyway, so being able to directly remove the shims was an added bonus.

    As an aside, while going through this "30K service" it is amazing to me that anyone would do this without removing the engine. It is just not all that hard to take the engine out, and there is a LOT more going on in there than just swapping the belt will address. It is physically impossible to see, reach, tug, feel and test everything that needs to be seen without taking the thing out. For me, it would be like me doing surgery behind my back. I'm sure I could do it with practice, but not with quality and precision. It would just be a neat trick with low yield. Just my 2 cents.
     
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